A little schooling in identifying handle materials, please

B

billinvegas

Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Messages
278
It's one thing when the manufacturer indicates on a new knife the handle material...

I've been purchasing some older knives, from antique stores, garage sales, etc...

I've read somewhere that bone will have a "grain pattern" to it versus a synthetic material designed to look like bone, correct?

How does one differentiate Stag, from bone designed to look like stag?

Also, celluloid / synthetic versus the real versions of:

mother of pearl
tortoise shell
horn

I'm assuming once again that the horn should have some sort of "grain" to it...

thanks!

Bill
 
Bill,IMHO,this is a hands on,learning experience.It is,part of the fun,of collecting,accumulating,or whatever you want to refer to it as,our knife nut affliction.
You can't just expect someone to tell you,what all the possibilities are.
As you get knives & figure out what the scales that puzzle you,are,you then will get the hands on training.
One time I bought one off the bay,was said to be jigged wood,only to turn out to be a hard rubber material,that was once used.I needed some Old Dawg to clear that one up
-Vince
 
I've been in a similar boat, Bill. Not that long ago I spent some bucks on a knife advertised as stag but in actuality "bone-stag". Then, to make matters worse I post it here at BF, bragging about it only to be corrected - embarrassing, but, as Vince said: a learning experience.

Mike
 
malextwo said:
I've been in a similar boat, Bill. Not that long ago I spent some bucks on a knife advertised as stag but in actuality "bone-stag". Then, to make matters worse I post it here at BF, bragging about it only to be corrected - embarrassing, but, as Vince said: a learning experience.

Mike
Click to expand...

The combinations can be alot.Nothing to ever be embarrased about & this is one big reason,a good friend & myself & others,too, post pics in that Old Knife thread
So there is a reference,weather a fake,a fake out,or the real deal.
I once had a Cattaraugus slipjoint,I believe it was made from parts,bought up from the factory or ? But built of parts,at a later date than the knife should have been

But handle scales,one part of this,you will get good at & every once & a while you will still be stumped.

This is the knife I spoke of in my earlier post
DSCF4420.jpg

DSCF4418.jpg


There are a few things,about it,that are odd.The " Rare wood jigged " scales are ??
 
Here's a Remington,odd stuff,"pyremite ??",or celluloid ?. What is the difference
Looks like sea shell ? No?
DSCF3820.jpg
 
malextwo said:
I've been in a similar boat, Bill. Not that long ago I spent some bucks on a knife advertised as stag but in actuality "bone-stag". Then, to make matters worse I post it here at BF, bragging about it only to be corrected - embarrassing, but, as Vince said: a learning experience.

Mike
Click to expand...

The seller:barf: should have been ashamed of himself because he knew better. But, as the saying goes, there's a big difference between knowing better and doing better.

On another note, few collectors at one point or another haven't mistaken one handle material for another...I once bragged about the deal I got on a little ten dot (1970) bone stockman to Tony Foster... only to be informed it was Delrin. I knew the difference backward and forward, but it was really nice Delrin I guess :o Or maybe just the lighting:D
 
Here's one,I "checked out" Jigged somethig ?
Black stag ? or,"composition?"

DSCF4892-1.jpg
 
Stag or bone,you tell me ?

DSCF5058.jpg


DSCF5064.jpg
 
The more pictures you look at (if you haven't had the opportunity to handle the knives yourself), the more you will be able to identify handle materials. There have been several threads started in the Traditional Forum in the last few months that show different knives with specific types of handle material (titled, for instance "Show Me Your Ivory" or "Show Me Your Bone"). There are also several threads devoted to Celluloid and other synthetic materials. If you can't take advantage of the search feature on BF, you might just have to go back through all the pages and threads to find what you are looking for (which I like doing anyway). If I have some time, I might look back and see if I can find links to the threads for you.
 
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Durwood said:
I'd say it's bone. In my experience stag doesn't polish like bone does when carried.
Click to expand...


How about the center knife,right above the old half a buck. Stag ? or Bone ?

DSCF4830.jpg


This mother of pearl is carved,or "fluted" or whatever,it is referred to as. But with that treatment done to it,it could be mistaken as synthetic

DSCF1478-1.jpg
 
Vince, I'd have to say bone to both your queries. The pattern is too regular to be stag IMO.
 
Nasty, that Ray Cover is off the hook! It's like lookin' into a fire-- I can almost smell the smoke!
 
If you look at the handle material under magnification, you'll notice that bone, stag and wood have both pores and grain. It's especially noticeable in the ends of the scales (like end-grain on wood), if you can see that on the handle material. It's also sometimes visible in the inside edges of the 'jigging' also. This, at least, should differentiate natural material from synthetic (like Delrin/nylon/staglon).

I'm a fan of Case knives, in particular the '65 pattern folding hunters. I get a kick out of all the eBay listings I've seen for the 6165/6265 folding hunters with wood handles that are described as bone handles. As mentioned earlier in this thread, there's definitely an 'experience' factor in being able to determine which is which at a glance. The actual bone handled knives tend to have more of a high gloss/sheen to the finish (more so with age), whereas the wood handles don't ever seem to quite get that glossy. The bone handles, at times, almost have a 'liquid' look (with depth) to them, especially when viewed under strong light. It doesn't help that Case, in their own documentation and pattern-numbering scheme, identify any jigged handle material (wood, bone, or occasionally jigged delrin) with the '6' as the 1st digit handle material identifier in the pattern number. And in the case of the more recent wood handled knives, most of them are laminated wood. You can see the layers (like plywood), if you look at the edges of the handle scales under bright light with magnification.

As mentioned earlier, a little bit of HOT (like a needle or soldering iron) will immediately betray a synthetic material like delrin (it'll melt). Obviously though, that's usually not something you can do when inspecting someone else's wares at the knife show. But, if you've got some of your own that you're not sure what they're made of, it might be worth a try.

And to me, the synthetic materials like delrin or nylon are soft, compared to bone or stag, and can be scratched easily with your fingernail.

Edited to add:
I've noticed also, with dyed bone handles, if you take a rag/paper towel/Q-tip with a little bit of solvent on it (like rubbing alcohol or WD-40) and rub the handle material, some of the dye/color in the bone will come off, especially from inside the jigging. It's very apparent with new knives, usually rubs off quite a bit of the dye, sometimes even without solvent. I've never seen this happen with a synthetic handle material (it's color is intrinsic to the material itself, so it stays put).
 
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A good bright light and some magnification is helpful if you are looking at knives at shows. The florescent lighting at most shows leave much to be desired. with a bright led light and a pair of 3X reading glasses you can really pick up the details that can help you decide what it is. With a light and glasses I can see the jigging tool marks in most bone stag and there is some very convincing bone stag out there today.
 
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