A Navy SEAL Briefly Discusses His View on Knives

My sister-in-law is a cop. A few months ago I asked her what knife she carries, and she said that she didn't carry one. Being the knife nut I am, I had to fix that. I did something I'd never done before: I opened up my box of knives and let her pick any one she wanted. Inside the box was a variety of knives, from fixed to folding, custom to production, budget knives to multi-hundred dollar knives.

She checked them all out..passing over an Umnumzaan, a few ZT's, assorted fixed blades, spyderco's, sak's, multitools, everything. She finally settled on a Kershaw Blur tanto partially serrated. The fully black version you can get at Walmart. I had received this for Christmas a few years back and it sat never used. Now, many knife nuts laugh at this knife (myself included in some ways). I just don't like tanto's very much and even less so the really aggressive serrations on it turn me off.

She carries it clipped to herself every day. She often comments on how her cop buddies comment on her knife and how "awesome" it is. She says she uses it every day and it is constantly coming in handy, from cutting shoelaces and strings off perp's so they can't strangle themselves or anyone else to anything else.

I'm thrilled. And I can see how the serrations and tanto blade come in handy for her. And the blur is a great knife. But I can't help but feel somewhere deep down that she deserves "a knife a knife nut would bet their life on." I've offered my much more expensive knives like ZT's and so on and explained how they might be better and she politely declines and says that what she has works perfect for her. Go figure.
 
tobii3 said:
Okay, you win. I based my post on my career with Airborne and SOF Units. By all means, continue, shotgun.
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So do a few dozen other members of BF, including the owner.

The only Strider I ever saw carried by a Soldier (MI) was a gift from his brother, and he knew nothing about it. I sharpened a fixed blade Surefire for an AF CPT who worked in the J8, and a TOPS monstrosity with a 50 degree edge and a grind that stopped just before the tip, which belonged to a siginter. There was an OSI agent who carried two tomahawks, and another who mounted his fixed blade just like this SEAL described, with the butt of the handle almost touching his ear. Ordered a ZT 0400 at the request of an S2 OIC, and a pink Endura for a TSgt who handled keys and fuel cards for the command group. Most of the knives I saw on combat arms guys were Kershaw, CRKTs and Gerbers, along with BM autos for those who lucked out on their 4 shops. Fair number of S&W, SOG, and cheaper. Next to none of them had a singular clue what I was talking about when I got going about the hobby. None of them ever really tried to talk about what was best, they really didn't care. One of the funnier things I saw was a specialist using a Civilian during weapons cleaning.
 
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tobii3 said:
You still don't get it. It isn't a "budget" tool for a Soldier. It is the "best" that they determine is affordable on their income.

Reality is this -

There are more Gerbers, Benchmades, Spydercos, Cold Steel and SOGs being carried in Afghanistan right now than there are Striders, Hinderers and Emersons being carried over there.
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I know 4 guys who served over there. They would back up your statement 100%.
My neighbor served 2 deployments, carried the same Gerber. He never heard of Emerson or Strider or Hinderer.
 
NYOutdoors said:
My sister-in-law is a cop. A few months ago I asked her what knife she carries, and she said that she didn't carry one. Being the knife nut I am, I had to fix that. I did something I'd never done before: I opened up my box of knives and let her pick any one she wanted. Inside the box was a variety of knives, from fixed to folding, custom to production, budget knives to multi-hundred dollar knives.

She checked them all out..passing over an Umnumzaan, a few ZT's, assorted fixed blades, spyderco's, sak's, multitools, everything. She finally settled on a Kershaw Blur tanto partially serrated. The fully black version you can get at Walmart. I had received this for Christmas a few years back and it sat never used. Now, many knife nuts laugh at this knife (myself included in some ways). I just don't like tanto's very much and even less so the really aggressive serrations on it turn me off.

She carries it clipped to herself every day. She often comments on how her cop buddies comment on her knife and how "awesome" it is. She says she uses it every day and it is constantly coming in handy, from cutting shoelaces and strings off perp's so they can't strangle themselves or anyone else to anything else.

I'm thrilled. And I can see how the serrations and tanto blade come in handy for her. And the blur is a great knife. But I can't help but feel somewhere deep down that she deserves "a knife a knife nut would bet their life on." I've offered my much more expensive knives like ZT's and so on and explained how they might be better and she politely declines and says that what she has works perfect for her. Go figure.
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You did a good thing.....Now get your brother to replace an exclusive BLUR!..:D

Having served a bit i can tell you many thefts in the force itself- as the saying goes...REAL enemy in the blanket (for a knife-nut).
I carried a well-patina-ed necker and it never stood out.
 
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cncpro11 said:
I know 4 guys who served over there. They would back up your statement 100%.
My neighbor served 2 deployments, carried the same Gerber. He never heard of Emerson or Strider or Hinderer.
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So will just about every single friend/family member I have that's served in various units. One in particular has dragged the same Gerber all over the globe, for over 10 years, from multiple deployments to South America, Bosnia and 2 tours of Iraq. Knife has been through a LOT and is still intact.
 
I respect the service of LEO and military.

I rarely respect their opinions about cutlery because they are made after minimal study of the knife industry, modern metallurgy, and without knowledge of the market. It is strange so many people value the opinions of military/LEO over smiths, engineers, and EDC collectors who use their knives on a daily basis.

Does it really matter how one particular knife performs on a deployment? Especially when the knife is evaluated in settings where the primary task does not involve assessing the quality of modern knives, but, instead, focuses on rather performing a variety of non-related missions.

Most knife users are civilians who use knives in an EDC or outdoors capacity. Why do military users determine the quality, merit, or functionality of tools that are rarely used in such capacities? Why is the "tactical" movement driving the development of modern knives, even those designed for EDC, outdoors, and slicing capabilities?
 
Oakengroves said:
I respect the service of LEO and military.

I rarely respect their opinions about cutlery because they are made after minimal study of the knife industry, modern metallurgy, and without knowledge of the market. It is strange so many people value the opinions of military/LEO over smiths, engineers, and EDC collectors who use their knives on a daily basis.

Does it really matter how one particular knife performs on a deployment? Especially when the knife is evaluated in settings where the primary task does not involve assessing the quality of modern knives, but, instead, focuses on rather performing a variety of non-related missions.

Most knife users are civilians who use knives in an EDC or outdoors capacity. Why do military users determine the quality, merit, or functionality of tools that are rarely used in such capacities? Why is the "tactical" movement driving the development of modern knives, even those designed for EDC, outdoors, and slicing capabilities?
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A lot of good thought in there.

When I was still in I would pay attention to the knives people were carrying, what worked best for them, what held up on deployments, etc. It is a different type of data, not necessarily the most important data for every person or as a whole. There is some simplicity in evaluating that data as compared to what you hear on the internet. If you look at the typical experience with them on deployment, you expect among other things, some forms of neglect or abuse and less frequent access to sharpening tools because of 12-18hr days and not having everything with you all the time. In contrast - someone random on a knife forum says so and so model is durable and rugged, without knowing his/her lifestyle you have to question more to see what is the chances of them just parroting the marketing or hype. If it is actually used 99% of the time as a letter opener or worry stone then there is no real, useful data.

A lot of people are interested in stuff that holds up when dirty and often used in place of a more suited tool. Some because of disaster preparedness, societal collapse fantasies, just not liking delicate gear, or plain curiosity. The theoretical outlook is the more cool, awesome the military occupation is - the more awesome the tool that survived it is.

I have always taken just as much info away from the opinions and experience of people doing the woods/bushcraft stuff or other types of real use. Not so much from the collectors side or the ones who could have always performed all their usual knife tasks just as well with safety scissors. That doesn't judge them as a person, just their ability to say what works in use.
 
cncpro11 said:
I hated that movie.
That knife does nothing for me either.
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The movie was... well, eh but some of benicio's acting is fantastic in it. Honestly, it's not one I'd watch over again and quote but I was impressed with his portrayal of "Aaron Hallom".

The experts they had for knife handling however were legit and it's a breath of fresh air to see they didn't just improv it as most movies do.
 
Interesting thread. I was a LEO for more than 10 years. Never carried a fixed blade and always had a small benchmade in my pocket. I served most of the time in a unit which is very similar as what most people know as SWOT team. Never had the need for "tactical" knife use. My other folder was a Kershaw "black gulch". I only used that as backup to my fixed blade when I went hunting, it was "too big" to EDC with all my other gear....

Today as civilian who loves knifes I EDC at least 3 knifes daily which vary from Emerson, Spyderco, Coldsteel etc. to some custom builds. Also have at least two fixed blades within close reach.

Bottom line is life change and time change things. My sons will definately have a different approach to EDC knifes than I had - more options etc. (that is if knifes is not banned as dangerous weapons)

So in my mind it is several factors, knowledge, then affordability, comfort with the tool(knowledge?)

But interesting debate non the less
 
22 years Army Reserves, IN, OR, MP, but deployed to GTMO. No knives on duty whatsoever. Ink pens inside the wire were contraband. We searched the cells regularly for shanks, tho.

Having a knowledge of knives and their use was basically worthless in the service. I know it wasn't meant this way, but prying open an MRE with a Kabar? No, of course not. You don't even need a knife, all the bags and retorts are precut and tear open by hand. No knife needed ever. That philosophy pervades a lot of the design of equipment now. It's not anti knife, it's more pro soldier, making things accessible without needing a special tool.

Soldiers buy what is in the PX, the best knife I ever purchased there was a titanium M16, still have it. Did NOT deploy with it. The last few inches of space left in the duffel bag for my personal gear was oriented toward entertainment - I took a shortwave and earbuds, not a "BUDS Eviscerator."

Of all the knives I saw worth having, and used the most, a Swiss Army with scissors tops the list. 21 million veterans over the last 40 years have served, and the few who actually used a knife in combat number in the tens. Knives in the field are tools, not weapons. It goes to the Army not even having a manual on knife combatives - it's a couple of paragraphs under bayonet training. Paragraphs. The pushup gets more print. For every minute spent in edged weapons training in Basic, I've spent not hours, but man-days in PT.

That, of course, means nothing to those who market certain knives, and those that buy them. If you have ears to hear, then you get it. If not, I can't explain it any better - train with your primary weapon (the M16.) A knife? Just a fanboys toy. I know because I have some.
 
tirod3 said:
22 years Army Reserves, IN, OR, MP, but deployed to GTMO. No knives on duty whatsoever. Ink pens inside the wire were contraband. We searched the cells regularly for shanks, tho.

Having a knowledge of knives and their use was basically worthless in the service. I know it wasn't meant this way, but prying open an MRE with a Kabar? No, of course not. You don't even need a knife, all the bags and retorts are precut and tear open by hand. No knife needed ever. That philosophy pervades a lot of the design of equipment now. It's not anti knife, it's more pro soldier, making things accessible without needing a special tool.

Soldiers buy what is in the PX, the best knife I ever purchased there was a titanium M16, still have it. Did NOT deploy with it. The last few inches of space left in the duffel bag for my personal gear was oriented toward entertainment - I took a shortwave and earbuds, not a "BUDS Eviscerator."

Of all the knives I saw worth having, and used the most, a Swiss Army with scissors tops the list. 21 million veterans over the last 40 years have served, and the few who actually used a knife in combat number in the tens. Knives in the field are tools, not weapons. It goes to the Army not even having a manual on knife combatives - it's a couple of paragraphs under bayonet training. Paragraphs. The pushup gets more print. For every minute spent in edged weapons training in Basic, I've spent not hours, but man-days in PT.

That, of course, means nothing to those who market certain knives, and those that buy them. If you have ears to hear, then you get it. If not, I can't explain it any better - train with your primary weapon (the M16.) A knife? Just a fanboys toy. I know because I have some.
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I remember when I was in boot camp (USMC) they told us if it wasn't issued or supplied to us we didn't need it.... Taking into count that most of the guys who did the training were Vietnam Vets I believe they knew what they were talking about....

Same with the other training I went through while I was in and it proved true because anything extra was just more weight to carry around and back when I was in we did a lot of walking and the gear doesn't get lighter believe me........

Other than an M16A1 and later the M16A2 and the Colt .45ACP I wasn't issued anything else.
 
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tirod3 said:
22 years Army Reserves, IN, OR, MP, but deployed to GTMO. No knives on duty whatsoever. Ink pens inside the wire were contraband.
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Things have certainly changed since the early days of the JIIF/CITF when we used the dog kennels at "Xray".
 
I don't recall in which book I read this story but I found it recounted on knife-depot. In October of 1993 during the Battle of Mogadishu, when two Black Hawk helicopters were shot down,

"Navy SEAL John Gay was part of the operation to recover the crew of the helicopters. As bullets were flying, Gay valiantly carried out his mission until he was struck by an AK-47 round. For most people, if they’re shot with a bullet in the hip, it could be devastating, but in battle, any serious injury could be fatal because of the presence of an enemy. However, Gay went relatively unscathed thanks to the presence of his Randall Bowie knife.

"During the firefight, his knife caught the bullet and prevented it from seriously injuring him. The bullet shattered the blade causing fragments to enter his skin, but the knife stopped the bullet from going into his leg. Had he not been carrying his knife, there’s no doubt he would have been shot and potentially gravely wounded. It was this bravery, luck and valor that kept Gay fighting that day and eventually earned him a Bronze Star with Valor Device. Even though something like this would likely never happen outside battle situations, large knives can actually stop bullets."

I recall the book mentioning the other SEALs poking fun at Gay because he always insisted on carrying the large Randall. Bottom line is that it appears to be a personal preference. If memory serves, I believe there was an episode of Deadliest Warrior in which SEALs supposedly carry the Cold Steel Recon1 tanto folder. I mention "supposedly" because, again, I am pretty sure it's a matter of personal preference. And doesn't Lynn Thompson state that his SRK is the official issue BUDS knife?
 
tirod3 said:
22 years Army Reserves, IN, OR, MP, but deployed to GTMO. No knives on duty whatsoever. Ink pens inside the wire were contraband. We searched the cells regularly for shanks, tho.

Having a knowledge of knives and their use was basically worthless in the service. I know it wasn't meant this way, but prying open an MRE with a Kabar? No, of course not. You don't even need a knife, all the bags and retorts are precut and tear open by hand. No knife needed ever. That philosophy pervades a lot of the design of equipment now. It's not anti knife, it's more pro soldier, making things accessible without needing a special tool.

Soldiers buy what is in the PX, the best knife I ever purchased there was a titanium M16, still have it. Did NOT deploy with it. The last few inches of space left in the duffel bag for my personal gear was oriented toward entertainment - I took a shortwave and earbuds, not a "BUDS Eviscerator."

Of all the knives I saw worth having, and used the most, a Swiss Army with scissors tops the list. 21 million veterans over the last 40 years have served, and the few who actually used a knife in combat number in the tens. Knives in the field are tools, not weapons. It goes to the Army not even having a manual on knife combatives - it's a couple of paragraphs under bayonet training. Paragraphs. The pushup gets more print. For every minute spent in edged weapons training in Basic, I've spent not hours, but man-days in PT.

That, of course, means nothing to those who market certain knives, and those that buy them. If you have ears to hear, then you get it. If not, I can't explain it any better - train with your primary weapon (the M16.) A knife? Just a fanboys toy. I know because I have some.
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I went to basic in 2004 and went through several days of bayonet training. Literally days. I can appreciate the fact they want everyone to be well rounded and supposedly assume the role of infantry when necessary. But I always found it amusing that I spent days with a bayonet but never got to shoot an M9. Actually never shot a M9 at all for the army until this deployment now.
 
I like a fixed blade and carry one when doing any outdoor activity, but I rarely carry one at work due to weight and space. Every ounce counts and there’s only so much space on a belt and chest rig. In 15 years I've never ran across anything that a multi-tool wouldn’t handle. If an operator finds himself in a knife fight then a failure has occurred on a couple of levels. Also, although I'm a knife snob in regards to my personal collection and I own more knives then I probably should; I carry a leatherman and a cheap spyderco resilience at work. We are rough on tools and no one wants to loose or trash a $150 piece of gear when a $30 piece of gear will do the same job. JMHO.

Edited to state: I am not a SEAL nor do I assert that I ever have been one. I am however, an operator and I’m just speaking from my own experiences. My belief that my opinion on the subject is not too abstract from the general mentality of most operators, is based on the fact that I have been surrounded by them for going on two decades. I just wanted to clarify.
 
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kaosu04 said:
I went to basic in 2004 and went through several days of bayonet training. Literally days. I can appreciate the fact they want everyone to be well rounded and supposedly assume the role of infantry when necessary. But I always found it amusing that I spent days with a bayonet but never got to shoot an M9. Actually never shot a M9 at all for the army until this deployment now.
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Bayonet training is more about developing the warrior mindset. With that in mind, it is very valuable.

The pistol is a tertiary weapon, status symbol or item of convenience for most of the military(not all). Very few receive the training to employ one effectively. It is the hardest of all small arms to use well, and takes a ton of training and will for self-improvement in part of the individual. Because of this, there are even fewer actually capable of teaching the subject. Generally unless you have a solid IDPA, USPSA etc. shooter in the unit OR bring in the AMU or other professionals, the training provided as well as the m9 qual is an absolute joke with unrealistic standards.

As for knives, you can line up 20 dudes in the military, even from the same unit, and they'd all have different answers about what they like. Some are content with a $20 flea market special, some may be "knife guys" and have a several hundred dollar custom.

Further, it depends on your job. A mechanic needs certain tools, a prison guard needs different tools, a combat arms guy running raids on houses requires different tools, etc etc.

It also depends on your training. There are a myriad of programs being run in the mil. MACP and SOCP are the two biggest for the Army, but there's also Sayoc, Krav maga and folks from other organizations getting contracts. Some soldiers are training in other programs in their personal time. Or, maybe they have no training on the subject whatsoever.

Beyond that, there's also the environment. Urban, rural, jungle, arctic, desert? That will also effect your choice.

Bottom line is there are still 9 million ways to skin a cat. Use what you need, and if it gets the job done for you, you've made a good choice.
 
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It's funny how the SEALS are just seeking the recognition now, it was all so covert and hush hush not so many years ago. Now all these movies are seeking expertise from field veterans, act of valor, blackhawk down, zero dark thirty. Every US seal and spec op member has a tale to tell. Look at the shelves, it reads like a veritable Clive Cussler but in non fiction?

But I don't get all these items endorsed by SEALS, knives, watches, packs, boots, gloves, hats. Here's a good example, if you want the number one watch in service, get a $80 gshock, not the ridiculous Jaeger Lecoultre Navy seal watch at some $7000.

Where to next, SEALS giving the stamp of approval on bread?
 
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