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A New level of Sharpness - Push Cutting TP
- Thread starter Ankerson
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Ankerson
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Some yeah, the coarser edges seem to tear it.
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Incredible.
Jim have you come across some blade steels that just wont take an incredible edge? Or some that are just made for low angles and extreme sharpness?
Jim have you come across some blade steels that just wont take an incredible edge? Or some that are just made for low angles and extreme sharpness?
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Ankerson
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Ankerson
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That will never happen either, TP isn't stiff enough to take any pressure at all, that's why there is the need to hold it.
It is however weak enough to tear easy if the edge isn't sharp enough, that's why it makes for a good test medium.
If the edge isn't sharp enough it will just slide right over it without cutting it so while being weak it's still tough enough.
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Well, I just spent over an hour experimenting. Wanted to try it using what I generally carry in the field first.
A 12C27 Mora Clipper sharpened on the SiC stone from the Ontario Pilot's knife. I used regular supermarket 2 ply.
Held the material as you show in the video. Lightly, but not loose.
I tried cutting with just the weight of the blade, or some added, but still light pressure. Fast or slow speed.
Couldn't manage a true push cut - which is expected due to the level of finish.
The problem is I could cut through very easily with a slight draw. Even single ply. No tearing, or snagging.
It feels as if I'm somehow cheating. I'm probably doing something wrong, but I can't tell what.
A 12C27 Mora Clipper sharpened on the SiC stone from the Ontario Pilot's knife. I used regular supermarket 2 ply.
Held the material as you show in the video. Lightly, but not loose.
I tried cutting with just the weight of the blade, or some added, but still light pressure. Fast or slow speed.
Couldn't manage a true push cut - which is expected due to the level of finish.
The problem is I could cut through very easily with a slight draw. Even single ply. No tearing, or snagging.
It feels as if I'm somehow cheating. I'm probably doing something wrong, but I can't tell what.
Ankerson
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I could do slicing cuts easy with the last 3 Militaries I got with the factory edges. But they were not as clean as with the polished edges and I could see bits of TP on the edges once I was done.
I have found there are levels of sharpness when cutting TP.
- Will slice though clean, but leaves TP on edge
- Will Slice through clean with no TP on edge
- Will Push Cut clean
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Ok, I've watched your videos several times... and that just doesn't look like a push cut to me. It appears that you start near the heel, but by the time you reach the bottom you're near the belly (not including the initial slice to start the cut). The angle of the knife also makes it look like it's slicing more than a push cut.
Doesn't take away from the fact that it's sharp!! :thumbup:
Feel free to tell me why I'm wrong on this, if I am. Maybe it's just how it appears.
Thanks.
cbw
Doesn't take away from the fact that it's sharp!! :thumbup:
Feel free to tell me why I'm wrong on this, if I am. Maybe it's just how it appears.
Thanks.
cbw
I didn't say slicing, I said with a slight draw. Most of the force applied was downwards.
I couldn't get it to do a cut straight down with no draw.
What I was doing felt similar to what I could see in your videos.
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That's pretty nice, starts and ends with a slice, but you do cut through a portion of the center without a draw. Not so much a true push as the edge is pulled through by the angle, but that is sharp.
Next would be to do it with the edge perpendicular and with no draw, but I don't know if that can be done. I may hone my last straight razor and see. If it won't do it, then I don't see hope for a knife.
Next would be to do it with the edge perpendicular and with no draw, but I don't know if that can be done. I may hone my last straight razor and see. If it won't do it, then I don't see hope for a knife.
Ankerson
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It's the way I was holding the knife, it was just sitting in my hand so the only pressure was the weight of the blade.
I did one different also off camera, the held the knife in place and drew the TP up through the blade, a true push cut. Maybe I will make a video of it later.
Well that's the same thing as splitting a hair with a coarse edge if you hold it on both sides... It doesn't really prove anything.
I don't think I agree. This proves that this is one very well sharpened knife. Having occasionally used toilet paper as my testing cut, I can clearly see the results in the video and KNOW that this is a very well sharpened knife. It may not be the falling silk scarf parting as it drapes over the scimitar, but it's sure not far from it! :thumbup:
Stitchawl
I think the goal here is to test how much shaper the knife is, not to make some really scary feat of sharpening prowess. If I hold a hair out on both ends and carve it with a coarse edge, it proves that edge is sharper than the one that couldn't do that. You still need a pretty high level of sharpness to even slice TP.
Still though, in the videos, I don't know if I'd call these true push-cuts. Regardless they certainly show an improved level of sharpness as if there was a draw, it was a very small one in proportion to the distance the knife passed through the toilet paper. It would be a bit like saying a guiltiness is not really a push-cut because it has a slanting edge and performs a slicing action.
You've never tried TP, have you? This is insanely sharp, I've never gotten my edges like this, and I can get them pretty sharp.
You can cut free newsprint and phone book paper, but not TP.
I've been playing around with this test and it has been an eye opener for me. Stropping with .25 micron diamond spray on leather has always given me a great hair whittling edge but I was very surprised to find that it was terrible at the TP test. With some experimentation I found that stropping on CrO (the old stuff from HA) followed by clean leather was far superior to anything I could achieve with diamond stropping even when followed by clean leather. It was also interesting to find that the TP sharp edges are more difficult to whittle hair with because they tend to slice right through unless you are very careful.
My ZDP blade has given me the sharpest result, sliding through the TP as if it was not even there. The worst material has been S30V which is a bit snaggy no matter how carefully I prep the edge. I should note, however, that even a snaggy TP cut will easily whittle hair, tree top arm hair or pass any other test I've tried. The nice thing about the TP is that it gives very good feedback on edges at a level of sharpness beyond other tests. Why does it matter? Still asking myself that question!
My diamond spray is still the quickest strop to a useful edge but if I want the ultimate sharpness it is waterstones to 16K with a quick touch-up on CrO and leather. Thanks to Ankerson for a great test!
Rick
My ZDP blade has given me the sharpest result, sliding through the TP as if it was not even there. The worst material has been S30V which is a bit snaggy no matter how carefully I prep the edge. I should note, however, that even a snaggy TP cut will easily whittle hair, tree top arm hair or pass any other test I've tried. The nice thing about the TP is that it gives very good feedback on edges at a level of sharpness beyond other tests. Why does it matter? Still asking myself that question!
My diamond spray is still the quickest strop to a useful edge but if I want the ultimate sharpness it is waterstones to 16K with a quick touch-up on CrO and leather. Thanks to Ankerson for a great test!
Rick