A new level of tough

[HotSwat]

I used to think a knife was adequately strong if it were stronger than me. I feel a knife needs to withstand all the force I can generate with my hands/arms. Lately I've see knives bent with pipe, pounded throughout wood with another piece of wood, and subjected to hanging weights.

Are we asking too much of our pocket knives? Or, is our quest for the strongest pocket knife pushing the knife industry to innovated and evolve?

 

[singularity35]

I used to think a knife was adequately strong if it were stronger than me. I feel a knife needs to withstand all the force I can generate with my hands/arms. Lately I've see knives bent with pipe, pounded throughout wood with another piece of wood, and subjected to hanging weights.

Are we asking too much of our pocket knives? Or, is our quest for the strongest pocket knife pushing the knife industry to innovated and evolve?

IMHO, anytime consumers and ELU's demand capabilities beyond those of existing models, there will always be the incentive for innovation and development for the manufacturers.

 

[hardheart]

As long as the increase does not sacrifice cutting ability, I don't have an issue with it. Like for folders, if a new lock does not add significant weight or cost when compared to others, and still operates smoothly and easily, then I see no reason not to use it. Or when tougher & harder alloys that resist fracture and deformation to a greater degree are used. I don't like knife designs once they get to a certain thickness of edge, grind, or stock... ones where I ought to use a prybar or axe instead. But of course, making a knife thicker isn't innovative on its own. Not much engineering in "Eh, just make it heavier."

 

[Noctis3880]

I think there are a few knives on the market so strong to the point of being impractical. I like that the Tri-Ad lock on my American Lawman can handle 400+lbs of force without failure, but I can't imagine what exactly I could be doing on a regular basis that would demand so much strength.

However, I don't really think there a need for a limit on the strength of the blade steel itself, as a knife that can be repeatedly driven through a car door without edge degradation sounds very appealing in normal use, as it would be as close as you can get to a knife that almost never needs to be sharpened:thumbup:.

 

[kreole]

As long as the increase does not sacrifice cutting ability, I don't have an issue with it. Like for folders, if a new lock does not add significant weight or cost when compared to others, and still operates smoothly and easily, then I see no reason not to use it. Or when tougher & harder alloys that resist fracture and deformation to a greater degree are used. I don't like knife designs once they get to a certain thickness of edge, grind, or stock... ones where I ought to use a prybar or axe instead. But of course, making a knife thicker isn't innovative on its own. Not much engineering in "Eh, just make it heavier."

Well said!

 

[Dorito Monk]

I used to think a knife was adequately strong if it were stronger than me. I feel a knife needs to withstand all the force I can generate with my hands/arms. Lately I've see knives bent with pipe, pounded throughout wood with another piece of wood, and subjected to hanging weights.

Are we asking too much of our pocket knives? Or, is our quest for the strongest pocket knife pushing the knife industry to innovated and evolve?

I might be a bit of a traditionalist when it comes to knives, but IMHO, if a person is using their knife for batoning in the first place, they are doing something seriously wrong.

I certainly like solid, tough knives, but 90% of the time (ie: If I'm using the right tool for the right job) I don't need my knives to be like that. For that 90% of the time, a slipjoint or other knife with no lock whatsoever will do the trick just fine. Times were I didn't even bring a locking knife or fixed blade with me when camping or hiking - I just did everything with a saw, hatchet, and swiss army knife.

Long story short, when I buy a knife with a ridiculously solid lock or really stout blade, it's more an issue of want than an issue of need.

 

[Poez]

Its all marketing. It serves no usefull purpose except for generating more sales. As a side-effect it may also mislead some customers into abusing the product.

 

[hardheart]

I think if a knife has a 1/4" spine, it had better be able to handle batoning; or if long enough, chopping. It's like a couple of threads where there are complaints about a 1/4" thick knife receiving edge damage from whittling chopsticks or batoning wood. I think those are perfectly valid complaints for people who want knives made of stock that thick. I've sharpened knives to thin edges, but none of them had spines that thick. If an edge is going to ripple in wood, then the steel in a thick spine is wasted. Either use thinner stock to save weight and make the rest of the knife pass through material as it is cut easily with a thin edge, or thicken the grind so the edge can handle something that justifies a 1/4" spine.

But I don't have a 1/4" thick knives at the moment.

 

[DennisStrickland]

very few decent factory knives are produced that do'nt have decent parameters for strength required for what the tool was intended. a knife is for cutting not breaking open doors or prying fossils from rocks. all the b.s. hype in the last 30 years has totally given the newer knife users a distorted concept of what a knife should be able to do. knives are for cutting, not prying, puncturing steel , putting out fires, shooting down invading spacecraft, ad infitum. look at history & you will truly understand what the requirements of knives should be, remember all the trillions of homo sapiens whom passed before & truly needed knives to survive: did'nt expect their blades to turn a tyrannosauras rex from it's path.
dennis

 

[singularity35]

We now have steels that knife users of old can only have dreamt about, we have technology that allows makers to build folders approaching the strength of small fixed blades. What if we get to the point that knives can do all that we want of them? Would that be such a bad thing?

At the moment, of course there are tradeoffs but a push for innovation and experimentation can't be a bad thing. Manufacturer's and makers are trying various ways and configurations of knives that might be closer to a do it all knife than other previous configurations. IMHO, this can't be bad for the end line user.

 

[bearcut]

But of course, making a knife thicker isn't innovative on its own. Not much engineering in "Eh, just make it heavier."

Right on.

Strong AND light is what it's all about.

This is true for everything, not just knives.

 

[Toyz]

Its all marketing. It serves no usefull purpose except for generating more sales. As a side-effect it may also mislead some customers into abusing the product.

I don't necessarily agree with this mindset. Knifemakers are becoming more involved with their customers through shows and through forums like this. They read what we write, and they watch the same videos we do. I've seen quite a few posts from Sal Glessner, A.G. Russell, Chris Reeve, Rick Hinderer, Tim Galyean, Ernest Emerson...the list goes on and on.

What better R&D than some of us knuckleheads putting a knife through total abuse, sometimes to failure.

And when we overstep our bounds - do something totally off the wall with a knife - they usually inject themselves and bring us all back down to reality.

If it was all marketing those companies would soon be out of business. All most of us REALLY need to get through our civilized day is a good slipjoint with a decent edge. They stay in business somehow. In all the years I have been lurking and posting on these forums, I have only seen a handful of knife makers that us enthusiasts really turned our back on. Why? Because they were making bad product or they were severely overpromising what their product can do.

I agree that the innovation or thickening of the components needs to deliver something more than just added weight.

Do I think we are asking too much from our pocket knives? No.

 

[J.Davey]

very few decent factory knives are produced that do'nt have decent parameters for strength required for what the tool was intended. a knife is for cutting not breaking open doors or prying fossils from rocks. all the b.s. hype in the last 30 years has totally given the newer knife users a distorted concept of what a knife should be able to do. knives are for cutting, not prying, puncturing steel , putting out fires, shooting down invading spacecraft, ad infitum. look at history & you will truly understand what the requirements of knives should be, remember all the trillions of homo sapiens whom passed before & truly needed knives to survive: did'nt expect their blades to turn a tyrannosauras rex from it's path.
dennis

Very well put. When it comes to knives, especially folders, the only thing I really expect a lot of toughness out of is the tip, and this is just because I tend to use the tip for things it probably shouldn't be used for. In 25 years of using knives, I've only broken one blade, and that was the tip of a BM AFCK. The tip was ground unusually thin. I sent it to BM, they replaced the blade, I still have it, and the tip is intact. Yeah, I like a tough knife, but I want one that will actually perform well as a KNIFE.

 

[bada61265]

We now have steels that knife users of old can only have dreamt about, we have technology that allows makers to build folders approaching the strength of small fixed blades. What if we get to the point that knives can do all that we want of them? Would that be such a bad thing?

At the moment, of course there are tradeoffs but a push for innovation and experimentation can't be a bad thing. Manufacturer's and makers are trying various ways and configurations of knives that might be closer to a do it all knife than other previous configurations. IMHO, this can't be bad for the end line user.

hope and change? you know one thing that i have seen is that a old steel knife thats sharp cuts as well as any new steel and any steel thats sharpened properly cuts until it gets dull. the only difference in knife tech that ive seen is a huge catering to fad knives and this is marketing. it has nothing to do with making a folder into something as strong as a fixed blade, i dont believe that should even be strived for. what would be accomplished. You would end up with folding knives that have 5-6 inch blades and weigh in several ounces more than there fixed blade counterparts. you really want a 4" blade folder that weighs 8 or more ounces? and lastly and this is the biggest point, do you really want only one knife? if you answer yes you are in the smallest minority on this forum, congratulations.

 

[Nebulae]

IMHO knives are used to cut. period. for me I am more interested in harder, sharper, longer than tougher. I cannot Imagine a situation where I would realistically need to use my knives in a manner that would cause them to break.

 

[JackHammer]

The "idiot proof" knife has not yet been invented.

 

[KnifeKnut66]

The "idiot proof" knife has not yet been invented.

And never will be. Idiots are infinately resourceful and creative and will always find a way to screw something up........

 

[Joshua J.]

People these days are continually driven to make things bigger/faster/stronger/better all the time. Not necessarily out of need, but out of curiosity, which is just fine by me.

Beyond the most basic fixed and folding knives, people make what pleases them, and what they think will please others.

 

[bada61265]

People these days are continually driven to make things bigger/faster/stronger/better all the time. Not necessarily out of need, but out of curiosity, which is just fine by me.

Beyond the most basic fixed and folding knives, people make what pleases them, and what they think will please others.

well you dont become a benchmade or spyderco or any other knifemaker only catering to what your individual tastes and needs are. you do and people dont like it there not going to buy into it. whats driving innovation are marketing strategies and cheaper manufacturing processes. by that i mean allot of cad and cnc. metals and alloys are not exempt from better processes. shure there are hand fitted knives. made from billit titanium machined on cnc mills, with a touch of hand fit and finishing. i dont think the process is based on anything but what they think is going to sell, and what can be marketed to sell well.

 

[singularity35]

hope and change? you know one thing that i have seen is that a old steel knife thats sharp cuts as well as any new steel and any steel thats sharpened properly cuts until it gets dull. the only difference in knife tech that ive seen is a huge catering to fad knives and this is marketing.

I guess if it were up to you, everybody would be using the same old knives. No fad sebenzas and no striders and no other "hype" and "marketing driven" knives, huh? How boring!

it has nothing to do with making a folder into something as strong as a fixed blade, i dont believe that should even be strived for. what would be accomplished. You would end up with folding knives that have 5-6 inch blades and weigh in several ounces more than there fixed blade counterparts. you really want a 4" blade folder that weighs 8 or more ounces?

Why not? Isn't the point of a folding knife to have a knife in lieu of a fixed blade when it is impossible or inconvenient to carry a fixed blade? And as it has been mentioned just thicker and heavier is not the point. Strong and light. Now this would be a worthy goal. The innovation that I'm looking for is a strong light folder. If the state of the art will eventually make it a possibility to have a knife as light as an endura with the strength of a small fixed blade, why not? And it would not bother me at all to have a 5 inch long blade on a folding knife.

and lastly and this is the biggest point, do you really want only one knife? if you answer yes you are in the smallest minority on this forum, congratulations.

Now where did I say that I wanted just one?