A potentially scary situation - injury...

myright

myright

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
5,145
Alright fellas - I haven't been all that active on here recently. I've had a second kid since I signed off so times have been very, very busy lately.

I have been able to work out a lot. I'm at the gym 5 days a week and the 6th day I stay active with some type of cardio-only workout. Day 7 will be my rest day. Anyhow - the point of me saying this is that I'm in great shape right now. My knees have been aching me just a little but nothing worth going to the Dr about and nothing that has really stopped me from doing anything. I did find that riding hard on my mountain bike made it worse so I stopped that for a while.

This past weekend I did some hiking with my two kids and my wife down on Skyline Drive in VA. I had my 2 year old on my back. Him plus gear was about 40lbs on my back. My wife had my 2 month old on her. My right knee was aching a bit more than normal but I ignored it and pressed on with the hike. The hike was ~1 mile in and ~1 mile out so no big deal right? It was a steap incline that was filled with loose rock. I made it up ok but was not able to make high steps with my right leg. Anytime I needed to step up I had to use my left leg or use my hands on my right knee for support. I got to the top and felt great, except for the knee. The way down is when it got interesting. The combination of the terrain and the kid on my back would have been enough to make anyone a bit wobbly but DAMN - every step down killed. I mean horrible pain. To the point I had to make frequent stops and use the trees for support. Luckily this was a trail with a lot of traffic incase I got in to a real jam but it got me thinking.......

You can be in great shape and anything can happen. I was prepared as usualy but realized I had NO way of making fire. No lighter, no matches, no firesteel. The only thing I had was the knowledge of how to make fire using alternate sources. It also got me thinking of how I could take care of a family of 4 with a hurt knee on a mountain that would hit 40 degrees F at night.

I made it down fine and made my son walk as soon as we got to a place where it would be safe for him to do so. Tomorrow I am going to the Dr to get it checked out - I've never had knee problems before so I'm not looking forward to hearing any bad news.

I had a lot running through my head that day but I took comfort knowing I had some skills in my brain that I can fall back should I need it - the real problem would have been water. On the way down we were down to 20oz between all of us. (the two month old had breast milk :D )

Be prepared fellas!
 
Good luck with the knee. Doctor x-rayed mine and couldn't find anything wrong, then wanted me to go through all kind of alternative therapy before sending me for an MRI. Said that's the way they do things, now. Send you for treatment for an unidentified injury(?) rather than an expensive test.
I wear knees supports when necessary, and use trekking poles when hiking. Did about 7 miles yesterday afternoon, and ~14 today, including a trip to the highest point in Alabama, and a few miles worth of steep stuff covered with rolling rocks. No supports, and no knee pain. I don't know if it's because I started doing light squats again recently, or the trekking poles. I go to a chiropractor as needed to keep my back straightened out, and pelvis in place, and have had him "adjust" my knees the last few times, too.

Don't know if any of that gives you ideas, but something I'm doing is working.
One thing I haven't been doing is hiking much the last couple of months, since I've gotten into rock climbing...kind of afraid the answer might be "don't go hiking":(

Very pro the trekking poles, though-helps by taking weight off your legs/knees, and keeping your balance so there's not so much of a jerk when your foot goes out from under you on steep climbs/descents.

btw, my idea of a realistic "survival" situation is exactly what you're talking about-due to injury.
 
You've never had knee problems before so you may be lucky and it may just be tendonitis especially since you have been working out so much. I have a few knee problems and old knee injuries myself but have avoided surgery so far. I work out 6 days/week as well. I finished P90X a few months ago and had to take a few weeks off due to knee pain. It really never bothered me much during the workouts so I was lucky. You may want to take a 2-3 week break from your intense routine or at least cut out the leg routine for 2-3 weeks.
 
OwenM said:
Good luck with the knee. Doctor x-rayed mine and couldn't find anything wrong, then wanted me to go through all kind of alternative therapy before sending me for an MRI. Said that's the way they do things, now. Send you for treatment for an unidentified injury(?) rather than an expensive test.
I wear knees supports when necessary, and use trekking poles when hiking. Did about 7 miles yesterday afternoon, and ~14 today, including a trip to the highest point in Alabama, and a few miles worth of steep stuff covered with rolling rocks. No supports, and no knee pain. I don't know if it's because I started doing light squats again recently, or the trekking poles. I go to a chiropractor as needed to keep my back straightened out, and pelvis in place, and have had him "adjust" my knees the last few times, too.

Don't know if any of that gives you ideas, but something I'm doing is working.
One thing I haven't been doing is hiking much the last couple of months, since I've gotten into rock climbing...kind of afraid the answer might be "don't go hiking":(

Very pro the trekking poles, though-helps by taking weight off your legs/knees, and keeping your balance so there's not so much of a jerk when your foot goes out from under you on steep climbs/descents.

btw, my idea of a realistic "survival" situation is exactly what you're talking about-due to injury.
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I'll wait and see what the doc says. From the research I've done it looks like it may just be from overuse but I'm no doc. The pain is directly behind my knee cap. I'm just thankful I made it down fine.

Good on ya for getting your knee better! I guess I could have cut a hiking staff - truth be told it never crossed my mind when I was out there.
 
Barbarossa said:
You've never had knee problems before so you may be lucky and it may just be tendonitis especially since you have been working out so much. I have a few knee problems and old knee injuries myself but have avoided surgery so far. I work out 6 days/week as well. I finished P90X a few months ago and had to take a few weeks off due to knee pain. It really never bothered me much during the workouts so I was lucky. You may want to take a 2-3 week break from your intense routine or at least cut out the leg routine for 2-3 weeks.
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I've cut intense cardio out since I started getting the pain a few weeks ago and have recently stopped lifting legs as well. I'm 32 and it seems like the pain tends to stick around a little longer than it did 10 years ago.

Crossing my fingers for tendonitis. I'm going to my primary care doc so I'm not sure how much he'll be able to tell me but you never know.
 
Bummer about your knee, sorry to hear that. It's doubtful that your primary care doctor will have much to offer (speaking from experience), but he/she can probably point you in the right direction. And sometimes the healing process just takes time. Knees are twitchy that way.
 
myright said:
You can be in great shape and anything can happen. I was prepared as usually but realized I had NO way of making fire. No lighter, no matches, no firesteel. The only thing I had was the knowledge of how to make fire using alternate sources. It also got me thinking of how I could take care of a family of 4 with a hurt knee on a mountain that would hit 40 degrees F at night.
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This is where a couple of double survival blankets, a peanut lighter, a flashlight & a SAK (for a total weight of stuff all) would be good to have on hand - just in case.

I EDC a SAK & a Multi-tool & a peanut lighter & a couple of flashlights. I ride a 400cc motor scooter and keep a FAK & survival blanket in a storage compartment. When I go camping I have the same things + other stuff (water, sleeping bag, bedroll, tent, camp stove, etc) but even for a 2 mile hike I will have my EDC gear on hand. Sometimes stuff happens when you aren't expecting it so I try to be reasonably well prepared every time I leave the house - it can't hurt to always be prepared.
 
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myright said:
I've cut intense cardio out since I started getting the pain a few weeks ago and have recently stopped lifting legs as well. I'm 32 and it seems like the pain tends to stick around a little longer than it did 10 years ago.

Crossing my fingers for tendonitis. I'm going to my primary care doc so I'm not sure how much he'll be able to tell me but you never know.
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I'm 32 also. I was digging wood out of a wood pile and some slid under foot. I tore my ACL. No surgery yet, but its a little dodgy. I feel ya.

In regards to the situation. What resources did you have on you? A knife? Any cool weather gear? You said you had some gear and a 2yr old, what was the gear? I only ask, 'cause I like puzzles. This is a good one. Moose
 
moosez45 said:
I'm 32 also. I was digging wood out of a wood pile and some slid under foot. I tore my ACL. No surgery yet, but its a little dodgy. I feel ya.

In regards to the situation. What resources did you have on you? A knife? Any cool weather gear? You said you had some gear and a 2yr old, what was the gear? I only ask, 'cause I like puzzles. This is a good one. Moose
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I had my EDC FAK as well as a some additional items for the kids - thermometer, ointments, diapers, wipes, burp cloth for the little one, a few cereal bars. For the wife and I a protien bar each. The 2 month old is still on breast milk so should be fine as long as the Mrs was close and uninjured. We started with 60oz of water between the two of us as well as about 15oz for the 2 year old. We consumed quite a bit of water on the way up as it was a bit warmer than normal and the incline was what it was.

I had a multi-tool with no saw on me as well as my large BM Griptillian. The pack my son was riding in has A LOT of webbing I could use but I would not want to dimantle that seeing as I'd need him to ride in it.

The wife and I were both wearing long pants and short sleeve shirts so an overnighter would have been a little cold. The kids would have probably been fine just using our body heat as well as protection from an impromptu shelter that I would have had to make.

I like the fact that this is all hypothetical at this point. :thumbup:
 
I'm no doctor either but I've worked out doing full-body routines and O-lifts for years now and I know that sometimes knee pain is a result of three things: bad technique, not enough warm up, and an unbalance in leg exercises (like body builders that over do it on the leg curl and don't do enough squats or other hamstring exercises). Over time, the quad starts pushing into your knee caps causing discomfort (I read this from Dan John I think)

Just make sure you grease your knees and open your stance when you squat, toes facing out. But you probably know this already.

Cheers,
JW360
 
Best of luck with the knee. I was diagnosed with "water on the knee" many many years ago - the result of too much knee work on the heavy bag (I was into Muay Thai back then). Am now 43 and it's dogged me off and on for about 20 years. Last year a buddy got me into training with Kettlebells. The standard KB squat involves going very deep, similar to an olympic squat. I was initially very reluctant to do them out of concern for my knee, but gave it a try with light weight and slowly worked my way back up to a fairly respectable load. Going deep may actually put less stress on the knee than only going till the upper legs are parallel to the floor (as I was taught). In any event, my knees feel better than they have in a long time.

BTW, if thing seem to be a little less rugged and take longer to heal now that you're in your 30's, you're gonna love turning 40 - it's like the warranty just expired, right down to needing bifocals!

A large +1 for the walking stick. If things got really bad you could have rigged a splint to get back to your vehicle. Good food for thought, I generally bring only water and some light food when doing a day hike. I'll have to put together a bag with a few more items, even when I only expect to be a few miles out.

If you've never seen "Touching the Void", I highly recommend it. A serious example of how deep a person can dig to get back to the world with pretty much zero resources.
 
JohnWayne360 said:
I'm no doctor either but I've worked out doing full-body routines and O-lifts for years now and I know that sometimes knee pain is a result of three things: bad technique, not enough warm up, and an unbalance in leg exercises (like body builders that over do it on the leg curl and don't do enough squats or other hamstring exercises). Over time, the quad starts pushing into your knee caps causing discomfort (I read this from Dan John I thi

Just make sure you grease your knees and open your stance when you squat, toes facing out. But you probably know this already.

Cheers,
JW360
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Thanks for the tips, John! I appreciate it.

I went to my primary care doc today. He said it is likely patellofemoral pain syndrome but can not tell for sure without ruling out an MCL tear which he can't do without an MRI. He requested that I let it go and take it easy for a few weeks. If it patellofemoral pain syndrome then it should become less painful. If not then an MRI it is then probably off to the knee doc.

I've got to get on these trails again, soon. I'm still hitting the gym hard for my upper body. Tomorrow is a body weight day only, pushups, pullups, etc so I'll have to leave the rest out which kinda sucks.
 
Since you were only a mile out from the car at most, it would not have been a huge issue to have wifey walk back to the car and call or drive to a friend's for help to haul you out. If you were out farther, toward nightfall, with walkout not an option, team work and teaching as you go would be important.

Assuming one leg totally disabled (which is more serious than your issue sounds), you could hold the 2 month old and instruct the wife to gather all the dead standing wood and dry ground wood within 20 feet or so. If you can make friction fire work, you're good.

I second the recommendation of at least having a lighter or firesteel stashed somewhere. "Weightless", and super handy.

Good luck with the knee!
 
Myright-

I just turned 48. I've got a sh!t load of trail miles under my belt. Like you I've had to push through some hikes where I was way out there or couldn't let my family down. I don't like the fact that my knees sometimes don't agree with my route planning.

You indicated that you are a mountain biker.

Well here is some advice I think will help you get through your next decade of outdoors activities-- Spend more time on a road bike.

Don't stop hiking-- just go easy for a while when your knee is hurting.
Don't stop mountain biking-- try shifting to an easier gear.

Get out on the road and spin easy. It's fun and good exercise. It's also what the surgeons and physical therapists will ultimately have you doing if you go that route. Why do you think all the PT facilities have rows of stationary bikes? It great for the knees.

If you don't have a road bike, just throw some slick tires on your mountain bike.

Good luck and stay fit.
 
Hi Mr.Right
Glad things worked out on that hike.

I am probably in the minority here but please hear me out.
I do a lot of running and it is necessary to learn all
about various muscles and stretching.
Please take a look at
http://tpmassageball.com/knee.php?id=78 (click the parts of the body)
and when you have time,really go through that site.
I have NFI in that company and you dont need to purchase
their products to accomplish the "active release" they talk about.
Basically,if "these" muscles get tight,they pull on where they attach.
Many are attached at the knee. By kind of smashing up these
muscles with a foam roller,your forcing a stretch into them,thus
"releasing". Anyway,please read that site,can also
google Active Release Therapy.

An example,you work on your calves,get them super strong,
"look honey,solid as a rock"
well,that calf is so tight it cant stretch when needed and pulls on the muscles
it is connected to. those get overworked and then they get tight...etc etc etc

Everyone can benifit from this,you dont have to wait till\
your in pain.

Wow,sorry for the length
questions,feel free to pm me.
 
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i am glad things worked out for you and no overnighter was required. i just want to point out you were all good if the wife still has breast milk :) don't hesitate to use the survival situation to your advantage its just a little sweeter than regular milk and very good for you. just saying :)

in all seriousness i hope your knee is alright sir and glad everyone made it back ok
 
All the advice so far is spot on.

Wear a brace until it feels normal again.
Get trekking poles.

Take it easy for a few weeks. In my experience, the only fix for knee injuries is time off.
 
Thanks for posting, it's one of those good reminders for all of us.

I won't comment on any medical stuff, I don't even play one on TV :)

I will comment that even on short hikes, the "essentials" need to be accounted for. Extra clothing- hat, gloves, some thermal layer, light shell (if it isn't already being worn); a couple of firestarting devices; water and a method to purify more- this could be as simple as a couple of micropur tabs; heat sheets/space blanket- these take up very little room and weigh close to nothing; light (I find headlamps preferable); fak; sunscreen; sunglasses; compass/map; whistle, a little extra food and a knife.

this gear can be easily carried even in the tiniest of packs

you had several bases covered, but it's a good reminder that it's in everyone's best interest to have all the bases covered

hope your recovery is speedy!

Mike
 
Good advice already that I will not chime in on but something not mentioned would be for an air splint. Or temp cast materials. I have issues with twisting knees and makes it damned hard to walk- knowing this, I try to be prepared to stabilize an injured knee to help me get out. Would work as well for a sprained ankle , wrist or elbow. Stabilizing it would at least limit further injury while getting out.
Hiking staff is another important item for me.
2Door
 
Good post. It was fatherhood that convinced me I needed to take more to the woods than a knife, a lighter, and my skills
 
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