A prophet in his own land........long read and it won't make any difference anyway.

I think we are in deep $hit. Seems we have more enemies from within our borders than we do outside. All you have to do is watch the news on TV to prove what I say. I say that there are a lot of people that have already forgotten 9-ll-01. Of course many of the ones that don't think there is a reason to fight didn't lose any body in the towers, or any of the other bombings around the world.

When a city in the US will outlaw a kids toy because it loooks like a gun, It would appear that we are becoming a nation of cowards. I guess that sounds a bit harsh but I call it like I see it.
 
History is a litany of the larger/better armed/more organized group conquering/exterminating/oppressing the weaker group. This is what mankind does. We are flawed by nature. Original sin.

Tibet is only the most recent, large-scale example of this. I'm not surprised that the world can't or won't do something about the Tibetan situation. I'm only surprised that the world actually has intervened in places like Kosovo.

I can see people willingly adopting an authoritarian/totalitarian system if it offers them hope for a better future. Just look at Algeria - where the people, in that nation's first free and fair election, voted overwhelmingly for a group of Islamic fundamentalists who said they would abolish democracy.

Given the situation in Nepal - the great disparity in the distribution of wealth, the corruption, the starvation - there's no wonder that there is a communist movement.

Are people possibly better off under an un-free regime? I'm sure that you could find many Chinese or Russians who would say "yes". But, I'd bet that the millions who died due to Mao's and Stalin's policies (e.g. the "Great Leap Forward") would disagree.

S.

Edited for English
 
Well, Uncle, at least you got the hard ones down. the rest of them (ritural, history and methodology)can be learned by simple practice and research!:)

Sounds like old Ben got things a-flarinn here @ the Cantina. Barkeep! Another round fer everyone!

Keith
 
If, as a nation we really believed in freedom, there would be US troops in Nepal, now. But there is no monetary gain. We don't get oil from Nepal, or cars or electronics. So the Nepalese are left to fend for themselves. Perhaps instead of giving foreign aid to Arab nations that despise us we should spend some of that money on Nepal. But could we help them without trying Westerize them? Or would we demand their allegiance to the almighty dollar? Perhaps our political leaders aren't really that interested in opposing China. How many Americans buy stuff made in China because it's cheap? We're raedy to go to war with Iraq but still trying to be buddies with Saudi Arabia. I have a feeling that we could be a fly on the wall in the offices of our world's leaders we'd be sick our stomachs. I seem to recall something that Orwell wrote in 1984. That the war isn't between Oceanea and East Asia. It is the Inner Party against the Outer Party. If only our politicians were "of the people". Then we just might live up to the ideals that our founding fathers had in mind. Sorry that was so long.

Frank
 
The current Chinese government seems to be trying to distance themselves from Nepal's "Maoists", at least in public. I don't know if they really think it pays to get involved or not. Sadly the US government doesn't seem to think it is "worth it", as Frank notes.

The Maoists/dacoit seem mainly interested in destroying infrastructure and symbols of government regardless of cost to the populace. Things like roads, bridges, water pipelines etc.

Do they make an exception for bridges and other projects built by the Chinese, or do they wreck those too?
 
As I mentioned, it's the means I disagree with. There is something about destroying 6000 Buddhist temples, forcing monks to kill one another and copulate with female monks, killing off a million or two Tibetans, stealing valuable icons from the gompas, forcing people of opposite mindset to flee their homeland that somehow doesn't seem good and proper to me regardless of how high the standard of living might be improved.

The US tries to develop foreign policy without having the slightest notion of what the foreigners they are dealing with are really like. You have to understand the people you are trying to help or defeat. Going in blind is asking for disaster and that's what we usually get. Problem is arrogance on the part of the politicians. They refuse to listen to qualified observers in the field -- like I was. What the hell can a 50 year old Peace Corps volunter possibly know? No matter that I was in the field in Nepal, was living with Nepalis, married to a Nepali, never visited the American compound, saw things from the trenches. What could I possibly know?

But the major problem is one of spirituality. Every holy man since man has been able to record anything has addressed this. If we don't begin to look on others as our brothers this bullshit will continue until we blow this old world to kingdom come. There's two rules that can save us and every major religion has them: Love God and love thy neighbor as thyself. Until we do this there will never be any peace.
 
And until that much to be hoped for day, do as Uncle says, and more. Give of yourself openly and freely without fear and be compassionate as Mother Teresa who treated every person she touched as if he were Christ himself. :rolleyes:

Oh yes, I forgot to mention: have your back up piece where you can get to it with your off hand. Just in case your strong hand is out of commission and you can't get to your primary weapon.

:D :D :D
 
Very interesting thread!

I have nothing to say that hasn't already been said (better than I could say it in most cases).

But the major problem is one of spirituality. Every holy man since man has been able to record anything has addressed this. If we don't begin to look on others as our brothers this bullshit will continue until we blow this old world to kingdom come. There's two rules that can save us and every major religion has them: Love God and love thy neighbor as thyself. Until we do this there will never be any peace.
Click to expand...

Yep. Very true I think.

But as my well spoken fellow forumite Rusty said, until then:

have your back up piece where you can get to it with your off hand. Just in case your strong hand is out of commission and you can't get to your primary weapon.
Click to expand...
 
No one has noticed that Benn Around's idea has been around; it was common intellectual stuff in the 1960s that communism might be better than what had gone before, largely regarding China. That's what people said during the brief infatuation the West had over Mao. It was brief because of brutalities during Mao, and if memory serves, his reign did not eradicate starvation which was the triumph this whole idea of communisim -being better than what had gone before- was built upon. No country has ever succesfully adopted a communist regime. They become or are fascist. Forcing/coercing self sacrafise does not work. Interesting eh; you become what you hate?
As Bill and many others have pointed out, this 'revolution' began by killing and harming the very people meant to be liberated.

munk
 
Russia and other countries espousing Communist rhetoric never made it past socialism and almost went over to totalitarianism, or facism as munk states.

I've got buddies from the Ukraine who were just glad to come to a country where they could have running water and electricity and heat whenever they want it.

Told me horror stories about whole regions of Ukraine that grew corn and grains that were contaminated with radiation from the Chernobyl incident, but the hungry have to eat, right? Sorry, waay OT.

Keith
 
Ben - I grew up under Communist rule and trust me - you wouldn't want to be there. It will take many time to my country to repair all the damage done during those forty years. Sorry man, but you just don't know what you're saying.
 
Frank: how much oil was there in Korea, Vietnam, and Somalia? How much oil was in the former Yugoslavia?

Yes, much is decided upon economics, but 'economics' means lives in third world nations. It is better to look at it as a crap shoot; some money, some sympathy, some power, some just because, and some lucky enough to make it into publc awareness.

Sometimes it makes as much sense as watching TV and wondering how in hell those people made it into prime time.

munk
 
Munk,

You are absolutely right, these ideas have been around for a while.

Some of the older warriors on the forum may forget that there are those to whom these ideas are new. Many of us thought about these issues or had direct experiences with them years ago and the decisions we reached then seem obvious to us now. That makes it easy for us to answer a rational proposal or arguement with invective.

The personal experiences and the rational considerations brought up in some of the posts here speak eloquently to anyone considering these issues for the first time. Much more eloquently than a "cussing out" of the person who proposed the idea.

The minds of men are more dangerous than guns or khukuris.
 
Howard, I'm glad you stepped forward to say that. We try to be fair and to welcome the man, if not all of his ideas. What's an idea?

Communism is a sweet dream. A remarkable fairy tale, a, 'what if' ? But that's all it is, a dream. In the abstract it might be interesting to see if a 'pure' strain was allowed to exist what would happen. I nor anyone I know would wish to belong to the experiment. I'm not a joiner of cults.

It is a trajedy when a young person is swayed by an idea to his destruction. The result of communism is destruction. It is hard to credit the idea still has any weight and could be renewed.

munk
 
The first time I read the Communist Manifesto when I was a kid I was surprised at just how attractive it was.
 
When I read it at about 20 years, I remember thinking here was a guy like me, who was just tired of working people getting screwed. I bet if Karl Marx were alive today he'd be horrified to see what was done with his idea. I didn't think his plan would work even with the best intentions, and we all know what happened with the worst.

munk
 
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