A question about water

What many of you folks who are not up to speed on this piece of kit need to know; is that Sawyer rips off most of their designs from other manufacturers on the market. Platypus was the first company with a dual bag system out there, that most backpackers would trust. Next, PUR used to make many of the filters now sold under the Katydn brand. PUR or Katydn are THE filters chosen by most knowledgable folks who use a filter daily. The 'pleated technology filter' was developed by PUR, and was passed on with the company transfer to Katydn. Also, Sawyer tends to hype their products to folks who don't know any better. It's not that the products won't work, they will, just not for the advertised volume. Yeah, redeem that 'free replacement filter' when your's buggers itself up 50 miles from the nearest trailhead. Now what you going to drink? Oh, your going to boil your water? Well then there goes that fire ban eh?!! Forget Sawyer, their products IMO/E are right up there with Ozark Trail from Walmart....Stick with the products that are LEAST hyped such as Katydn, MSR, Platypus. Customers rave about their products so they don't have to!
 
1Tracker said:
What many of you folks who are not up to speed on this piece of kit need to know; is that Sawyer rips off most of their designs from other manufacturers on the market. Platypus was the first company with a dual bag system out there, that most backpackers would trust. Next, PUR used to make many of the filters now sold under the Katydn brand. PUR or Katydn are THE filters chosen by most knowledgable folks who use a filter daily. The 'pleated technology filter' was developed by PUR, and was passed on with the company transfer to Katydn. Also, Sawyer tends to hype their products to folks who don't know any better. It's not that the products won't work, they will, just not for the advertised volume. Yeah, redeem that 'free replacement filter' when your's buggers itself up 50 miles from the nearest trailhead. Now what you going to drink? Oh, your going to boil your water? Well then there goes that fire ban eh?!! Forget Sawyer, their products IMO/E are right up there with Ozark Trail from Walmart....Stick with the products that are LEAST hyped such as Katydn, MSR, Platypus. Customers rave about their products so they don't have to!
Click to expand...

1Tracker
I am trying to learn as much as I can about filters and purifiers. Can you tell me where you got you information from that Sawyer was ripping the designs off of other companies. I do see where others have gravity feed systems but they are filters not purifiers. I found the specs for Platypus here http://cascadedesigns.com/Platypus/Filtration-And-Storage/CleanStream-Gravity-Filter/product The sawyer doesn't use "pleated tecnology filters" according to them it is based on kidney dialysis.

Let me stress I am not trying to start an arguement, I just would like to learn more. Thanks
 
Yes, go read up on any of the backpacking forums and see what is said with regard to the Sawyer products in general. They were not the brilliant minds that came up with the 'squeeze bottle filter', yet they act like it in their ads. I did go and read the Sawyer info and saw what you mentioned with regard to their filtration claims. My point is if it's filtering that fine then it IS going to clog faster with regard to 'raw water' because Sawyer, nor any other company, can not test all water sources. If you use a filter regularly you will come to love and hate features about them and then continually evolve your filter collection until you find 'the one', just like a knife, for YOUR AO. A stream may very well appear to the necked eye to be 'clear' but it could be silt laden and clog a filter faster than some water that appears 'muddy', only because it has excess tannins dissolved in the water.

A purifier is necessary in certain AO's not all, that is why not all water filters are purifiers. Most folks get by just fine with a water filter in their AO's. I started way back using Iodine, then bleach, then Aqua Potable tabs (iodine), then to various filters. I ended up with a (then) Pur 'Hiker' which I used for over 5 years only changing out the filter each year, and carrying the old one as a spare. I stopped carrying the old spare after the second year as the filter worked as advertised. Yes, it can clog, and yes, you can 'back flush it' in the field if need be. I have also used the Katydn 'ceramic' style filters/purifiers, though they are much heavier than the regular filters, and more expensive becasue they filter finer, hence they're called purifiers.

I could advertise my knife as being able to do whatever it is I think will make you and a million other folks buy one. When it breaks/ lets you down in the middle of BFE'; are you really going to be saying,"Oh, that's cool, it's got a great warranty WHEN I can return it". In the meantime you may be SOL in the field, which is something you don't want to be when it comes to gear you carry.

Granted for a camping situation where you are base camping a gravity feed filter is a better concept IMO than a pump filter. Just don't believe the hype about the quantity of water it's going to clean for you. I've spent lots of money on lots of filters in 35+ yrs going afield and they all clog to some extent depending on the current water conditions in your AO's.
 
Just my memory...

But, I think I remember Katadyn being able to brag about their products being used by the Red Cross and the US Military as well a whole slew of other governmental and official type groups.

I have a Katadyn, and I quite like, have used it on multiple trips, and it is the bee's knees. And best of all, we did not get sick.

And, I think Backpacker reviewed it, and based on popular consensus, took the golden calf down and put the Katadyn filter in it's place.

Marion
 
Do a Google of: sawyer water filter .02 micron OR microns virus OR viral
Some good commentary at forums, especially comparing different filters and setups.

Ads are ads, but EPA certifies the .02 Sawyers as 5.5 log on viral infection
(99.997%).

I would expect a filter with smaller sized "holes" to clog faster, all things being equal. So if I bought a a Sawyer I would expect to prefilter the water if I wanted the same total passthrough as a filter with holes 20x as large.

There is a faucet backflush accessory that comes with the Sawyer SP135. You could also gravity backflush with safe water.

Where I backpack, there have been no reports of viral problems, so I'm good with my K Hiker.

Regarding knock offs, I can find no info on Sawyer using someone else's filter technology ideas.
 
hdglock said:
I found out that the .02 micron purifier uses technology very similar to kidney dialisys (sp?) in that it uses millions hollow tubes that are .02 micron absolute...You are able to back flush the purifier element with the filter water to return it an as new condition per Sawyer.
Click to expand...

Yep. A Sawyer rep was in the REI where I worked a few years back, and showed me the inside of the filter cartridge. One thing that sold me is the ability to backflush the filter rather than having to buy replacement elements, which IIRC you have to do with Katydin, MSR, and other brands.

The second thing that sold me was a search prior to that for reviews of other water filters. I found several that said, "Katydin sucks, ours broke on the first outing, then we got an MSR and we're happy," and several other reviews that said, "MSR sucks, ours broke on the first outing, but then we got a Katydin and we're happy." I recall pump parts breaking, making the filters unusable; and in one case an overpressure relief valve that sprayed water all over the backpacker and his gear. Also, at the time, these were only filters and required iodine treatment to be truly safe. That may have changed, I don't know.

I'm happy with the Sawyer. No need to sit around and pump, I can rig it for gravity flow if I want, I can just grab some water and immediately start drinking it through the straw, and I can squeeze the bag to get some water in the pot for dinner.

The Sawyer has no moving parts, no pump is required. The only thing you have to watch out for is keeping the element from freezing, as the ice crystals will rupture the tubes.

Their advertising may be over the top; I don't care so long as the darn thing works. As someone pointed out, even if the lifetime-in-gallons is grossly overstated, it'll still last quite awhile.
 
For my long term kit I ended up buying a Platypus system, ordered a couple spare filters, the bite value hydration system and threw in my kit one their screw-on Nalgene wide mouth bottle adapters and now am set to go. Not saying other systems won't work - just found this worked equal to and better than advertised. Also I never put all my eggs into one basket on anything...so I have several redundant modern and primitive back up systems in the event one (in this case a filter) breaks-down or isn't performing.

Also MSR and Playty are both owned by the same company - so they share technology just still chose to keep the products separate for branding purposes.
 
I would stay with a pump. I have used the katadyn pro and the vario. I liked the katadyn pro better than the vario. as discussed before, the gravity filters clog and are kind of a pain the arse. so I know it is over kill but in some of the places I hike, in California I pump water and use a steripen. the good thing about using both products is that I backpack with a few friends and we split the weight up.
chlorine water tastes horrible and so does Iodine... I like to enjoy some cold water...
 
1Tracker said:
Yes, go read up on any of the backpacking forums and see what is said with regard to the Sawyer products in general. They were not the brilliant minds that came up with the 'squeeze bottle filter', yet they act like it in their ads. I did go and read the Sawyer info and saw what you mentioned with regard to their filtration claims. My point is if it's filtering that fine then it IS going to clog faster with regard to 'raw water' because Sawyer, nor any other company, can not test all water sources. If you use a filter regularly you will come to love and hate features about them and then continually evolve your filter collection until you find 'the one', just like a knife, for YOUR AO. A stream may very well appear to the necked eye to be 'clear' but it could be silt laden and clog a filter faster than some water that appears 'muddy', only because it has excess tannins dissolved in the water.

A purifier is necessary in certain AO's not all, that is why not all water filters are purifiers. Most folks get by just fine with a water filter in their AO's. I started way back using Iodine, then bleach, then Aqua Potable tabs (iodine), then to various filters. I ended up with a (then) Pur 'Hiker' which I used for over 5 years only changing out the filter each year, and carrying the old one as a spare. I stopped carrying the old spare after the second year as the filter worked as advertised. Yes, it can clog, and yes, you can 'back flush it' in the field if need be. I have also used the Katydn 'ceramic' style filters/purifiers, though they are much heavier than the regular filters, and more expensive becasue they filter finer, hence they're called purifiers.

I could advertise my knife as being able to do whatever it is I think will make you and a million other folks buy one. When it breaks/ lets you down in the middle of BFE'; are you really going to be saying,"Oh, that's cool, it's got a great warranty WHEN I can return it". In the meantime you may be SOL in the field, which is something you don't want to be when it comes to gear you carry.

Granted for a camping situation where you are base camping a gravity feed filter is a better concept IMO than a pump filter. Just don't believe the hype about the quantity of water it's going to clean for you. I've spent lots of money on lots of filters in 35+ yrs going afield and they all clog to some extent depending on the current water conditions in your AO's.
Click to expand...

I realize a purifier is not needed in all areas. If you are in an area that you are unfamilar with, how would someone know if a virius was present? It would seem to me it would be better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

As far as it breaking when you are in the middle of nowhere. It can happen to anything. It would seem that something with no moving parts would be less likely to break

I would agree that it does need a prefilter to remove sediment. I thinkl I will be carrying some coffee filters as a prefilter. I can always put some in a bucket and let it settle then filter.

Even if the amount of water filtered is not up to the claims of Sawyer it should at least be comparable to the other manufacturers shouldn't it. If I needed to replace the element it would cost about the same as the mainstream ones.

So far everyone that has a Sawyer filter or purifier thats posted here seems to like theirs. I am feeling better about plopping down the money for this kit. I can't wait until it gets here.
 
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