A question for other "Custom Makers"

mykulmorris

mykulmorris

Joined
Jul 8, 2007
Messages
1,690
I don't know if this has been a topic before but, there have been a few times I've had a custom order from someone and then after I finish it they say "Oh, I'm sorry, don't have the cash now...". It doesn't happen that often but often enuf to be irritating. If they're not going to pay, I could be working on someone elses project. I thought about starting to ask for at least 1/2 up front to start their project and the balance before I ship. What do you guys do? Feedback is sincerely appreciated, Thanks!
-Michael
 
Just before you actually BEGIN to make the knife, make personal contact with the client to make sure all systems are "go".
I am many months behind on orders, so from time to time, when I get to the next order sheet, I discover the client's situation in life has changed - but I would NOT know that if I didn't get ahold of him just before production time.
This business is all about communication.
As well, any knife you make can be placed in "for sale" sections of about 20 different knife sites.
You haven't lost any money.
If, however, the configuration of the knife, or the materials involved are so outlandish that you feel no one else would want it except the ordering customer, then, and ONLY then, would it be advisable to take a - I hate this word! - deposit.
 
I'm with Karl. I would only consider taking a deposit if the knife were something that I didn't think I could sell anywhere else. I hate the idea of sitting on someone elses money. I guess I could also see taking a deposit if the materials requested were really costly.

I try to get ahold of the buyer when I am starting on their knife and again when I am nearly finished with it. After the knife is completed I send photos and if they still want it they can send payment. If they have changed their mind then it goes into a for sale forum or on my website.

SDS
 
Same here. I will contact the customer a few days before work begins, and if things are still going as planned, I start the knife.Deposits I don't like to do either. I would rather get paid in full when the piece is ready to ship. Just seems to work better for all involved that way.
 
Just like the gentlemen above have said.
You can always sell your work if you want to.

Bob
 
As far as I can tell, there are only about two problems that typically cause a knifemaker to vanish. (Older guys will chime in to confirm or disconfirm this.)

One is health issues and the other is non-delivery when money has changed hands.

Both of these will halt a knifemaking career, but only one of these situations can you recover from! The other gets you lots of threats and you better never try to make a knife again.

And just like having babies, there are lots of adequate protections, but only one way to really prevent it- don't go there in the first place.
 
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You might consider asking for a "draw" or partial payment when the blade is heat treated and ready to begin assembly. That way the customer can see a picture of what they are paying for at that point, and you can be sure that they are willing to commit to the piece before putting the rest of the labor into it. At that point if the customer defaults, you can still hilt the knife up to suit yourself or another customer.
I have never liked the idea of taking deposits and have always preferred to take payment only after the knife is complete but if I were trying to make a living from this I don't think I would do business this way.
 
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Well, I'm of the other school. I take full payment of knives up front. This is risky but I maintain my integrity with the customer and keep in regular contact. I have a customer right now who want's a knife but can't pay the deposit. If he can't afford it now how will he do so in the future. You may say he could save but he has been asking for a knife for a few months now and still has not saved his money.

This has worked for me for 4 years of full time knife making and I have not had any complaints. But again I stress that I make sure I deliver on my promises. If there is a delay most people are patient as long as they are kept in the loop. I am honest and open about my policy and my customer understand. I have a reputation now and people feel comfortable with the arrangement.

Also I maintain that it is far more pleasurable for the maker and customer when the knife is presented that there is only joy. Not the uncomfortable request for money. It feels more like a gift when finances are concluded before hand.

That's just me.
 
This has been posted and talked about. The big name makers (mastersmiths etc) seem to not take a deposit. That may be because of the MS behind there name. Yes I have had that problem before of taking a deposit and when the knife is ready the money is not. How long do you wait. Are e-mails answered? I do take a deposit. My feeling is , it shows that the client is committed. Also covers expenses such as material, etc. I give an estimated time range and make it clear that full payment is expected upon completion. Even with that all spelled out in e-mails etc. it still can happen. I look at it this way, try to go have some custom kitchen cabinets made or just about anything custom. All businesses ask for deposit. Why should we be any different? Heck, we dont make enough anyway. Just my 2 cents.
 
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I think I look at it from a different perspective.

I dont want a deposite simply because I wont have any ties to the buyer who backed out at last minitue and you are free to sell knife to anyone!!

If you do take a deposite I dont think it should be 100% refundable either. At keast material cost should be kept.

I have actually made a few guys very happy because a buyer backs out so I sell it to another guy :)
 
I just had too many want to be customers spending time to go through a design for them and then have them back out. I dont want to take a deposit but I dont want to be stuck with a custom knife that I have to find a customer for. I think if your knives are in real demand the situation is different.

I really dont think there is a right or wrong here, each knifemaker runs their own business and protects their own reputation.
 
I am with the others. I contact the customer just before starting on their knife and see if they are still wanting it and if there are any changes. I only take deposits if an expensive handle material is involved and usually not even then. There are other places I can sell the knife.
 
I really don't see the dilemma in taking a deposit, if it is a custom knife being made to a customers specifications there is no question in my mind that they should put down a deposit. I ask for 1/3 and have never had a complaint about it. The deposit is non-refundable, it covers the time you spent with that customer, but more than that, the customer has shown he (she) is committed to the transaction. It may be another story if the knife is a popular model of that maker.
 
I never take deposits unless the knife is be personalized. I also never make a knife that I don't think would sell elsewhere, if the customer backs out.
 
The last time I took a deposit on a knife was like Karl spoke about...very specific configuration and very expensive materials.

I generally operate under the premise of no deposits. The following experience really soured me though.
I asked for a deposit, (just enough to cover the ivory and gold for the knife) and within two days the client started calling....at first it was just chatting for short periods, then the conversations got longer and longer, to changing things on the knife, then it got to "when is my knife going to be done?" Now I don't mind talking with folks, in fact I encourage it, but this individual called EVERY DAY, and wanted to talk for hours on end, and it was keeping me from getting my work done.
At first I tried to hint by saying "I really need to get going and get some work done." But he didn't get the hint.
After about 3 weeks of getting calls EVERY DAY, including the weekends, I told him that I couldn't talk right now. The response shocked me...."You have my money, so you should be willing to talk with me as often and as long as I want!" I was as polite as possible, but very blunt too. I told him that I was returning his deposit, and that I was canceling his order, which I did.
I really don't know if the guy was a few sandwiches short of a picnic or what, but in essence, that situation made me feel like an indentured servant. Since then, I simply will not take a deposit unless it's 100% necessary for the project, and with a clear understanding of delivery dates and expectations.
My thought pattern is that as soon as you accept somebody's money, and they don't have a product in their hand, you've immediately made yourself beholden to that individual. If your someone who can operate well under those circumstances, then I guess it's OK to take deposits, but I can't, and therefore don't do deposits.
 
Ed, that is EXACTLY why I don't like the idea of taking deposits.

SDS
 
My ex wife contacted people on my waiting list and took deposits.... after we get divorced I get start getting email and phone traffic about orders and proof of checks being cashed. I made almost 40 drop point hunters for free and I didn't make a knife for months because the "assembly line" work killed me inside.
 
There are a few clients that like to bully makers. Push you into something you do not want to do. I just received a letter from a man who ordered a knife I would not put my name on, let alone spend time making. I told him no years ago and finally quit returning his calls or letters. He has paid nothing, I have given him no hope of ever making "his" knife. Now he threatens!

Save those letters and your responses, you may need them later.
Make no commitments as to time or future events.
The more specifications a client makes about the knife he wants you to make the less the probability he will be happy with the knife.

Find a great attorney, give him a knife as a retainer and he will be glad to write the letters so folks can understand.

Will: My heart goes out to you, that is a super tough one.
But it brings up a significant point. When you throw in with a partner, be they female or male - set it up from the start --- you will read and sign every document that goes out or comes in with your name on it. And make sure you spot check and make the most insignificant error very significant.

It is real easy to get busy and not have time for cashing checks or writing letters and it is great if your partner is honest BUT beware, beeeewwwaaarrre my friends.

It is human to trust, and I have been stung many times - don't do as I do, do as I say!
 
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