A question for those of you who collect custom knives

[DRK]

Let me start by saying I have never handled a custom knife so that is where this is coming from. My question is if one was to compare a custom knife of similar style to a CRK, not something that is heavily detailed, more like Titanium frame lock to Titanium frame lock. Is a custom knife going to be better quality than a CRK or just more unique? I understand the premium that one pays for something that is truly unique or part of a limited run, is that essentially what you get, or do you also get something that is of superior quality?

 

[kidcongo]

Good question. I have wondered this myself. I always come back to the thought that the engineering behind the Sebenza is tested and re-tested by the hundreds of thousands of them out there being used everyday. The knife is not going to fail in some unexpected way as the design, angle, tension, and materials of the lock, and the pivot system, are not the way they are by accident. They have been refined over many years.

I always wonder if these very expensive, limited edition, custom Ti framelocks, you see people collecting, were ever actually used daily, if they wouldn't just goof up or fall apart on you. Sometimes I think that the more expensive the knife, the less likely it is to be hard used, so the design of a custom knife may never really be tested. With CRK I feel there are plenty of dudes and gals out there thumping on them to know they can take it. The CRK line seems to occupy a sweet-spot price-wise between custom and generic production, but it may be the peak of durability.

 

[Ajack60]

it all depends on what your definition of custom is. For me, it means a knife is hand built by a maker from start to finish which makes it a true custom. The unknown is that someone can say custom made simply by hand polishing the blade while machines do the rest. That's why I tend to shy away from custom folders, now fixed blades is a whole other story. Even though CRK is a production knife, one can order one that is unique for him making it a one of a kind knife. I know the quality and workmanship that goes into a CRK, I know if the knife were to be used as an EDC, it would perform no differently than any other CRK. Reading the threads here about some of the issues involving custom made knives, I'm more than satisfied with the closet thing to a custom I'll ever own in a CRK.

 

[red mag]

When I look at my Sebenza, turn it back and forth, then I have to say: "no".
A custom can be made to your specifications and there are a lot (even within the integral-lock).
Beside from the dimensions, the blade material the edge geometry, the grind or the desired hardness you can determine the finish.
This all comes at a price. Probably it's about the price-performance-ratio.
For a custom you also need time and find a maker that is willing to do it and you trust.
When you finally receive you custom you have to deceide if you realy going to use it.
If you consider all this the Sebenza is a real good choice.
Let's not forget Chris Reeve started as a custom maker (I understand he still does customs).
red mag

 

[Peter Hartwig]

1st let me say that I am not a collector but a user with a variety of knives. IMO the difference between a Sebenza(the only CRK's I own) and a custom, is in design, grinds and blade steels, blade length and maybe some other matterials used. They are not going to function significantly better than a Sebenza, may be a little smoother but not much. A well made, made for use custom will not fail you. The Sebenza is a very well made with good quality control and a good pricing point for that quality. All the extra hands on work, and any added material cost and machinery add up and most customs from the maker are very reasonably priced, just different pricing structure( there are only so many hours in the day and they can only make so many knives). There are a few customs that I like better than the Sebenza, but if asked what 1 knife I would recommend to someone my answer is always a Sebenza. It's quality is good , pricing not that bad(for a knife ti framelock) and IMO the design will serve most people very well.

 

[biggerjon]

I have owned my fair share of customs. It is nice having a knife made to your exact specifications or picking out a knife that no one else will ever have. However, every custom I have had did in fact have something in the fit n finish that was not 100%. It is very hard to make a folder 100% perfect. Does a minor imperfection take away from the awesomeness of that knife? That is up to the owner.

I will say that I no longer have those customs. I do have my CRKs though.

 

[nyefmaker]

I have owned a ton of CRK as you fellows know, I have also owned a few customs. Not full blown customs costing thousands of $$, but ones that are just above CRK $$ wise. I will not get into names, but after dealing with some of them, I will just not spend my $$ on them anymore. On one for example, the thumbstud was just simply too short and the knife would not open using it. After contacting the maker, I had to pay for shipping to and fro and also pay for a new thumbstud.....??? WTH.......!!! After that ordeal, I am done. I will also mention that Fit and Finish was no where CRK levels as CRK just simply blew them away........Only CRK will get my knife money these days save for a few cheap knives I may get here and there like a SAK and such.

 

[Nellem]

I have customs (and I support custom makers) but I will never consider them better than a Sebenza. The tolerances Chris work to are mind boggling. Everything is just perfect. The Sebenza has been in use since 1987 all over the world. It has a well established track record. With the Sebenza you know without a doubt that you have a great knife in just about every way. Every person taking knives seriously must have a Sebenza. I have two, one to use (a Starbenza), and another one as part of my collection (damascus and wood inlays).

 

[DallasSTB]

As a rule of thumb for my collecting $'s, to get as high a level of quality as a CRK with a custom piece you have to spend about double. The argument for that expense are that you're getting a uniquely crafted, ostensibly personalized, pocket knife. I've had a few customs in the $1,000 range that were just as good as a CRK and were available with a greater range of options. Most have been sold. If you are looking for a extremely high level of quality and great after-the-sale service, with an eye toward your total cost of ownership - you just can't beat a Sebenza IMO.

Zero Tolerance is getting close tho.......

 

[flipe8]

I've only owned a few customs. Two were from makers that currently have their books closed with knives on the secondary fetching prices upwards of $1500 and I'll say none of them were to the level of F&F I get with CRK. More unique? Sure. More pricey? Absolutely. More collectible? Yup. Better? Not based on my experiences. I love the fact CRKs offer a great level of F&F at a reasonable price point while being available.

 

[DRK]

That is a lot of knowledge and experience you all have shared, thank you, this is such a great forum to be apart of.

I asked the question because when I was using one of my very small collection of CRK's yesterday, my 25, I was just thinking does it really get a lot better than this, regardless of price. I browse the customs and midtechs and there are some amazing knives out there but for the dollar premium I find the purchase hard to justify when an option like CRK exists. I like quality and its nice to know in the knife business that it exists at really a pretty attainable price point.

 

[bart1]

I think the design has a lot to do with the value… if you have an original idea for a knife, or like a makers unique design, then there is value. For a carry pocket knife, if you embrace the liner lock , and can live with the blade designs available from CRK,I agree that it's hard to imagine an improvement at any additional price.

 

[brownshoe]

Is a custom knife going to be better quality than a CRK or just more unique? I understand the premium that one pays for something that is truly unique or part of a limited run, is that essentially what you get, or do you also get something that is of superior quality?

Quality is a subjective term as is custom knife. There are all kinds of custom knives, some are designed poorly and constructed with a lot less attention to detail than a CRK. Others are equal to a CRK or are better. As to fit and finish, CRK and custom work is at least equal.

One example to ponder...who do you think can put on a better edge; a CRK worker who grinds blades daily for the last 10 years, or a custom maker who at best grinds one blade a day, or once a week if they are a hobbyist?

 

[DallasSTB]

One example to ponder...who do you think can put on a better edge; a CRK worker who grinds blades daily for the last 10 years, or a custom maker who at best grinds one blade a day, or once a week if they are a hobbyist?

I've had better luck with custom makers, at least for knives >$500, putting a finer edge on their knives than my CRK's. The Gayle Bradley that I have (below) makes the air bleed. Same with the Jerry Halfrich and Brett Dowell that I since sold.

For what it's worth, this knife is equals or surpasses my 20+/- CRK's in quality.

 

[mwschilling]

As someone who collects both CRK and customs, I can honestly say I prefer customs. I really like CRK and at one time had quite a few, but now down to half dozen or so. I still EDC a CRK small "gold leaf" and, less frequently, other wood inlayed Sebenza's and Manandi. I appreciate the fit and finish and overall quality of CRK. However, I tend to have a greater appreciation for custom knives. I also EDC a custom carbon fiber flipper made by Bruce Bingenhiemer, which I probably carry more often than any. I have other more expensive folders that I don't carry but this one was about the same cost of a Sebenza so I think a comparison is appropriate. Your original question was about titanium vs. titanium but in my case I can compare a CF Sebenza vs. a CF custom. They are about the same size and same cost. The Bing knife has better fit and finish, smother and has much better ergonomics. I like the fact that Bing hand forged the Damascus for the blade, hand cut the titanium liners and built this knife from scratch. As good as CRK is, you just can't say that about them. They are well produced on a CNC machine and same parts put together over and over. For custom knife collectors I don't think its all about "better quality" than CRK but more about the intrinsic value of something being hand-crafted by an master craftsman. Does it cut better than CRK? No, but neither does a CRK cut better than any other decent knife. Certainly don't want to take anything away from CRK. That's just my 2 cents.

 

[rexromic]

Good question. I have wondered this myself. I always come back to the thought that the engineering behind the Sebenza is tested and re-tested by the hundreds of thousands of them out there being used everyday. The knife is not going to fail in some unexpected way as the design, angle, tension, and materials of the lock, and the pivot system, are not the way they are by accident. They have been refined over many years.

I always wonder if these very expensive, limited edition, custom Ti framelocks, you see people collecting, were ever actually used daily, if they wouldn't just goof up or fall apart on you. Sometimes I think that the more expensive the knife, the less likely it is to be hard used, so the design of a custom knife may never really be tested. With CRK I feel there are plenty of dudes and gals out there thumping on them to know they can take it. The CRK line seems to occupy a sweet-spot price-wise between custom and generic production, but it may be the peak of durability.

:thumbup:

 

[rpnp]

Honestly if my name wasn't engraved on my 25 it would probably be sold already. My custom knives cut equally as good and the action is superior.

 

[DRK]

As someone who collects both CRK and customs, I can honestly say I prefer customs. I really like CRK and at one time had quite a few, but now down to half dozen or so. I still EDC a CRK small "gold leaf" and, less frequently, other wood inlayed Sebenza's and Manandi. I appreciate the fit and finish and overall quality of CRK. However, I tend to have a greater appreciation for custom knives. I also EDC a custom carbon fiber flipper made by Bruce Bingenhiemer, which I probably carry more often than any. I have other more expensive folders that I don't carry but this one was about the same cost of a Sebenza so I think a comparison is appropriate. Your original question was about titanium vs. titanium but in my case I can compare a CF Sebenza vs. a CF custom. They are about the same size and same cost. The Bing knife has better fit and finish, smother and has much better ergonomics. I like the fact that Bing hand forged the Damascus for the blade, hand cut the titanium liners and built this knife from scratch. As good as CRK is, you just can't say that about them. They are well produced on a CNC machine and same parts put together over and over. For custom knife collectors I don't think its all about "better quality" than CRK but more about the intrinsic value of something being hand-crafted by an master craftsman. Does it cut better than CRK? No, but neither does a CRK cut better than any other decent knife. Certainly don't want to take anything away from CRK. That's just my 2 cents.

That is a beautiful knife and a great comparison. I understand about what you are saying about wanting something different and unique I can appreciate that. When you say it is better fit and finish that is what I was wondering about, I don't have anything Custom to compare my CRK's to but mine seem to be very well finished, really beautiful grinds, silky action very well finished scales etc. etc.

 

[marthinus]

I've had better luck with custom makers, at least for knives >$500, putting a finer edge on their knives than my CRK's. The Gayle Bradley that I have (below) makes the air bleed. Same with the Jerry Halfrich and Brett Dowell that I since sold.

For what it's worth, this knife is equals or surpasses my 20+/- CRK's in quality.

That is a great looking knife, I love Gayle's work.

 

[alwayscarryaknife]

I think it is probably hit or miss with F&F. I have two customs. One a local maker and he makes nice knives. They are well priced. He only ever makes one of any design, so you have something nobody else will ever have. The other is one I just got, a Jeremy Robertson El Patron. It's around equal with the sebenza in the fit and finish department. It is the sharpest knife I've ever owned. The convex edge Jeremy puts on these things is outstanding. So for me it's about variety. So far this knife is worth it in my opinion. I own two sebenzas and don't plan on ever selling them but I also plan on keeping my El Patron. It's like a shorter 25 that is a bit thicker.

I'm not a collector and this thing will be used. I can't speak for the longevity but I've never heard of issues with his knives.