A Question for Trapper Enthusiasts

The Zieg said:
Just to set the cat amongst the pigeons, and to second Dave's observation, the spey blade probably has nothing to do with spaying. First, nobody I know refers to cutting male livestock as "spaying." Second, the name for the blade probably comes from the region around the River Spey. The shape of the spey blade is good for skinning. But that's not the same thing.

Just wanted to get that off my chest.

Zieg
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I always wondered about that too, I noticed that it was spelled the same as the spey cast, which is confirmed to be named after the River Spey.

Plus, "spaying" is for female animals and is a lot more complicated than what you can reasonably do with a pocket knife.
 
boy&hisdogs said:
Plus, "spaying" is for female animals and is a lot more complicated than what you can reasonably do with a pocket knife.
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Yep. And I've never heard of cows of cow calves being spayed. Once in a great while it's done on mares, but only for specific issues related to disease or disorder.

Zieg
 
Well, I am not a cowboy, but I did at least know that they don't call it "spaying." I did always assume, however, that cowboys were using the Spey blade on their trapper for that particular task, so it is really interesting to learn otherwise. I always thought that it looked best suited for skinning, even more so than a "skinner" blade. I could possibly understand having a blade designed without a sharp point so that it doesn't end up impaled in your leg when you're working around livestock, but there would still be no need for the sharpened portion to come all the way up the toe of the blade, so far as I can see. Fascinating!


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Trout Hound said:
Well, I am not a cowboy, but I did at least know that they don't call it "spaying." I did always assume, however, that cowboys were using the Spey blade on their trapper for that particular task, so it is really interesting to learn otherwise. ... Fascinating!
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But haven't we seen old spey blades from the UK that are stamped "Castrating Blade", a helpful example of NOT calling a spade a spayed??

- GT
 
5K Qs said:
But haven't we seen old spey blades from the UK that are stamped "Castrating Blade", a helpful example of NOT calling a spade a spayed??

- GT
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Oh yes, my understanding is that they are very often called "castrator" blades in the U.K. I suppose someone must use them for that.


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So I've been thinking, as this conversation has unfolded:

-Most cowhands carry trappers instead of cattle knives or stockmen.
-I remember someone here saying awhile back that they knew a lot of Alaskan fur trappers, every one of whom used a stockman to skin game.
-Real cowboys use clip blades, not Spey or "castrator" blades to actually castrate cattle.
-A lot of serious wood carvers prefer a congress to a whittler.

We should just stop naming things.


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FWIW, my opinion is that it's called a "spey blade" because it has the same end shape as the spey blade on a stockman, which actually was intended for neutering.

My further opinion is that you have to think about the original intended use of the knife: trapping and skinning. The lack of a point on the spey blade enhances the ease of use when working on game and you don't want to nick the entrails. Consider it a blade with max belly, if you will.

As far as what I use it for, I don't. I have no use for that blade shape, so if I'm carrying a trapper, it's usually of the Wharncliffe variety.
 
Historically, speying and neutering have been interchanchable terms for the same procedure...regardless of male vs female.
 
Trout Hound said:
So I've been thinking, as this conversation has unfolded:

-Most cowhands carry trappers instead of cattle knives or stockmen.
-I remember someone here saying awhile back that they knew a lot of Alaskan fur trappers, every one of whom used a stockman to skin game.
-Real cowboys use clip blades, not Spey or "castrator" blades to actually castrate cattle.
-A lot of serious wood carvers prefer a congress to a whittler.

We should just stop naming things.


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There was a good video of a "speying" using a stockman somewhere on youtube. The fella used the short spey on a large stockman..... made quite short work removing the "oysters" from the calf. Quite impressive..... it appeared that being sharp was more important than being big.
 
Having cut a few calves I can tell ya that size and shape of blade doesn't matter. Some of those Texican guys use a knife called a calf cutter and it looks more like a straight razor than a trapper. However this is one of the few places in life where a knife can be too sharp. Years ago I was into Japenese water stones. This was long before they were cool. I remember polishing up some knife to like 8 or 10,000 grit and just waiting to get to my first branding. Well it doesn't work. A highly polished edge just slides. I tossed it to a buddy who was also down (off his horse doing groundwork) cutting. He tried it on one and tossed it back said "don't like it , cuts funny". So went to work finding the ideal edge for this job and general ranchwork. After years of working on this settled on a 220 grit edge with just the burr polished off. This is ideal for cutting calves, rope, hay string, feed bags etc all the chorse we might use a knife for on a ranch. We estimate that 85% of our customers are working cowboys/buckaroos, ranchers etc. So it was important to get this right. Now every knife (with the exception of specialty knives like kitchen, hunters, skinners, leather knives) that leaves my shop has that edge and all I hear back is good things.

Another side note is the cowboy is more interested in ease of resharpening than edge holding ability. If ya got to do 200 calves before lunch you are gonna need to resharpen, don't matter what steel your blade is made from or how hard. I think that is another reason for the popularity of the trappers as most of em run fairly soft.

Thanks Trout Hound. Glad ya like that little buckaroo pouch. Its a great idea (not mine its been around forever). Just darn practical.

Dang I was hoping the spey blade would be named after the Spey river. Don't look like it though. Mostly cause I lived for six months on an estate outside of Aviemore within sight of the Spey when I was 20. Long, Long time ago guys.
 
The trapper pattern has always been one of my favorites. I really like the size and the main clip point more than anything. I never really had a use for the spey but I always thought it was nice to have a good size secondary blade. They usually have a decent spine for sparking a ferro rod so that's an added bonus for the Saturday campfire....
 
Like the man said, don't need a manual ;) I use the clip when I need something pointy, and the spey when I don't want to get poked. I picked this one up from VCM3 recently

I find the heft and thickness pleasing.
 
Horsewright said:
Having cut a few calves I can tell ya that size and shape of blade doesn't matter. Some of those Texican guys use a knife called a calf cutter and it looks more like a straight razor than a trapper. However this is one of the few places in life where a knife can be too sharp. Years ago I was into Japenese water stones. This was long before they were cool. I remember polishing up some knife to like 8 or 10,000 grit and just waiting to get to my first branding. Well it doesn't work. A highly polished edge just slides. I tossed it to a buddy who was also down (off his horse doing groundwork) cutting. He tried it on one and tossed it back said "don't like it , cuts funny". So went to work finding the ideal edge for this job and general ranchwork. After years of working on this settled on a 220 grit edge with just the burr polished off. This is ideal for cutting calves, rope, hay string, feed bags etc all the chorse we might use a knife for on a ranch. We estimate that 85% of our customers are working cowboys/buckaroos, ranchers etc. So it was important to get this right. Now every knife (with the exception of specialty knives like kitchen, hunters, skinners, leather knives) that leaves my shop has that edge and all I hear back is good things.

Another side note is the cowboy is more interested in ease of resharpening than edge holding ability. If ya got to do 200 calves before lunch you are gonna need to resharpen, don't matter what steel your blade is made from or how hard. I think that is another reason for the popularity of the trappers as most of em run fairly soft.
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You know, there seem to be a lot of "sharpening experts" out there - obsessive types who have a whole room full of waterstones, and a trash can full of whittled hairs, who have obviously never put in a good hard day's work with a knife. I have found, like you, that a knife for general use, and/or good hard labor of any type, is best left with a medium edge finish at the most. I do most of my sharpening by hand, and about 90% of the time I take it up to DMT fine, and then strop it 3 or 4 times on the leg of my Carhartts, and drop it in my pocket. Not only does it work better than a more highly polished edge, I don't have time to be doing all that other stuff. I've got work to do! Halfway through the day, if the knife is getting a little dull, then 2-3 passes on my folding hone brings CV or 1095 right back where I needs it to be.

Mind you, my carving blades are sharpened at about 7 degrees per side, down to fine ceramic, and then stropped to a mirror finish, and they can cut you if you so much as look at them wrong. But that edge would be wrecked in two minutes if I took it outside and tried to do any real work with it.


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According to my ancient but Traditional :thumbup:1933 edn.of the Shorter Oxford Dictionary, 'spay' originally meant to cut with a sword or knife and to kill deer with a piercing blow from Old French and Med.Eng. Later for the neutering of animals especially female ones. So why it's spelled Spey with an e blade is a mystery, just a mistake that's become the norm perhaps? GT is correct, British knives were often bleakly marked 'castrator' blade.:eek: Odd they also didn't use the word 'geld' or gelding-iron which I think is generally the term for castrated Stallions. But, I don't actually know about livestock fixing from experience.....

I think a Spey blade with its relatively blunt tip would also be useful where the user or animal might get a nasty stab in the case of a struggle but it's also good for slipping under a pelt without the likelihood of piercing the valuable fur ?
 
Hey TH, didn't mean to be glib in my last post. I find I like a Barlow at work and a trapper otherwise. In both cases the extra belly of the clip comes in handy when making long cuts like cutting up boxes and breaking up a piece of meat, where the sharp belly edge follows your wrist movement. I like the spay blades, big or small, for other tasks where you might stab yourself eg working in the garden or on a boat. Whereas the little spay on the Barlow attracts less attention at work, the big trapper spay really gets the job done. I've become quite fond of that EIG Solligen trapper I posted.
 
When you see "Spey" think "drop point".
Since other than a little sliver of a nub o' steel left on the non business side(as in its not on the sharp side) that can't ever get between the edge and what ever you want the edge to contact; It is simply a drop point with a slightly more abrupt than average curve to the tips belly.

Then you just naturally use the blade as you would any drop point; for any dang thing you please!
Its sharp steel; cut with it. That simple. Life goes on.
 
Many thanks to those who have replied so far. I am certainly aware that most everyday tasks can be accomplished with a wide variety of blade shapes. The more one uses traditional knives, however, the more one discovers that certain blades are best suited to certain tasks. I was merely wondering for what tasks others find this blade best suited, since I usually do not find a need for it. Not trying to over-complicate the matter, just curious.


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The only time I carry a full-sized Case Trapper is on weekends when there is a possibility we might go out to eat. I find it to be an excellent "personal cutlery set". If I don't think eating out is a possibility, I tend to carry a Stockman pattern. Which is why I sometimes end up using the clip blade of a stockman for food anyway.

I probably fall more into your category of a sharpening enthusiast and I will assure you that I have "never put in a good hard day's work with a knife." I work in an office setting and have no need for a knife in my job. I do know what I am doing when I sharpen and don't needlessly put a mirror finish on a working blade. I normally sharpen Case and similar knives using a Norton India combo stone, followed by soft and hard Arkansas stones, followed by a leather belt strop with some green compound on it. I find that is the perfect working edge for those knives.

My room full of water stones (I have 6) is reserved for my kitchen knives and higher-end steels that can benefit from them.

I don't begrudge your hobby of trout fishing (assuming, based on your name), don't begrudge my hobby of collecting knives that I don't get a lot of use out of and learning how to sharpen them effectively.

If you don't like the Trapper pattern, it's simple - don't buy them. They aren't my favorite (that would be a toss up between jacks and stockmans) but they are not bad knives.
 
jc57 said:
The only time I carry a full-sized Case Trapper is on weekends when there is a possibility we might go out to eat. I find it to be an excellent "personal cutlery set". If I don't think eating out is a possibility, I tend to carry a Stockman pattern. Which is why I sometimes end up using the clip blade of a stockman for food anyway.

I probably fall more into your category of a sharpening enthusiast and I will assure you that I have "never put in a good hard day's work with a knife." I work in an office setting and have no need for a knife in my job. I do know what I am doing when I sharpen and don't needlessly put a mirror finish on a working blade. I normally sharpen Case and similar knives using a Norton India combo stone, followed by soft and hard Arkansas stones, followed by a leather belt strop with some green compound on it. I find that is the perfect working edge for those knives.

My room full of water stones (I have 6) is reserved for my kitchen knives and higher-end steels that can benefit from them.

I don't begrudge your hobby of trout fishing (assuming, based on your name), don't begrudge my hobby of collecting knives that I don't get a lot of use out of and learning how to sharpen them effectively.

If you don't like the Trapper pattern, it's simple - don't buy them. They aren't my favorite (that would be a toss up between jacks and stockmans) but they are not bad knives.
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Hey jc57, no harm meant. I was mainly thinking about folks who try to tell everyone else exactly how they should sharpen their knives, and that their way is the ONLY way, even when they don't necessarily understand the application for which the blade is intended.

I am a bit of a sharpening nut myself, and I have amassed a rather sizable collection of equipment, of all different types. I definitely respect freehand sharpening as a highly refined skill, and there's nothing wrong with collecting and sharpening knives, even if you don't use them a lot.

Sorry if I sounded saltier than I meant to. No offense intended.


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No offense taken, my friend, we all have our interests and hobbies. They intersect here in the appreciation for, fascination with, and perhaps even love of, well crafted cutting utensils.

I prefer to use oil stones for traditional knives because it seems to fit them better. It has taken me perhaps 4 years of on-and-off practicing to become competent at sharpening. I'd rather free-hand sharpen than any other method, now that I seem to have a knack for it. Something satisfying about being able to take a dull knife and make it into a top quality cutting tool once again.
 
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