A question for you freehanders

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mykem

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I've grown a little weary of using pull through devices, kits, systems, angle guides and so on. I'd like to move on to freehanding .

I did learn something from using the materials i mentioned above and i finally finished reading the stickies which precede the live posts here.

All this was good, and all of it was informative to a certain extent. Now i think it's time for me to move on and start freehanding. I'd like to lose the training wheels, as it were.

What do you guys think are, i don't want to say "bare minimum," but rather the basic requirements to get started freehanding?

Some folks tend to get a bit carried away with this type of thing, so let's put a $75 maximum outlay on these basic materials. And the less the $ outlay the better, as long as the beginning needs are covered.

Name names on the stones, if you like, but it's not mandatory. But please do provide stone types and their grit numbers and why you consider them as essential for starting out freehanding.

And of course i know i'm not mentioning things or asking about things i should. So please feel free to add what you like.

I would only ask that we keep this under control and avoid exceeding the $75 monetary limit.

Thanks.
 
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Coarse DMT Diasharp continuous diamond hone, fine DMT Diasharp continuous diamond hone.

They are sold in a variety of sizes. I have one each that are 4" x 7/8", and one each that are 6" x 2". These are what I have used for several years to keep my work knives sharp. I can't produce mirror-polished edges with them, but I don't need mirror-polished edges at work.

If all I had to sharpen my knives for the rest of my life were one coarse and one fine DMT Diasharp hone I'd be very comfortable with that. Not surprising since that's all I basically use.

I also have an extra coarse for heavy work like re-grinding edges.

A pair of 4" x 7/8" DMT Diasharp hones (coarse and fine) can be purchased for $28.
 
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Norton Crystolon or India stone, or you can pick up their tri stone setups that have a nice base. I own the Norton IM100 which set me back $35 and it was money well spent with the quality of the stones and how securely the thing plants itself to a surface which I have come to love about it. Just like how killgar said he can live with just a coarse and fine DMT stone if he really had to I can live with the coarse crystolon and fine india (which are part of the IM100 along with medium crystolon) if I had to and be fine with that.

DMT's are quite good, I own a few with my DMT Aligner so if diamonds interest you don't overlook them.
 
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This plus a leather strop. Works just fine for me.
 
mykem said:
I've grown a little weary of using pull through devices, kits, systems, angle guides and so on. I'd like to move on to freehanding .... i don't want to say "bare minimum," but rather the basic requirements to get started freehanding ... $75 monetary limit.Thanks.
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You mention using kits/systems/guides, so that means you already have some kind of abrasive , yes?
Use existing stones to learn freehand or learn freehand like a boyscout with $1 stone
The basic requirements are the bare minimum, there is no difference :D
and $75 is already getting a bit carried away :P
Don't worry about spending more on stones until you've started using your knife whittling 1000 slices at a time like this Normark EKA 12C27 : optimal edge geometry for slicing hardwoods (norton economy fine edge) - CliffStamp
 
I'm close to ordering a Smith's 6" Diamond Tri-Hone Sharpener. It's well within the price range plus i have a $30 credit with Amazon so i'll end up paying less than $20 for it. From what i can see, it looks like it will be all i need to get started. If i'm missing something, please tell me what it is.

http://www.amazon.com/Smiths-50448-...th's+50448+6-Inch+Diamond+Tri-Hone+Sh­arpener

I read the manual and watched a few videos on it. It looks very effective and, with some practice, not too difficult to use.

I'd love to hear from people here who own, or have used one.

And as always, thanks.
 
mykem said:
I've grown a little weary of using pull through devices, kits, systems, angle guides and so on. I'd like to move on to freehanding .

I did learn something from using the materials i mentioned above and i finally finished reading the stickies which precede the live posts here.

All this was good, and all of it was informative to a certain extent. Now i think it's time for me to move on and start freehanding. I'd like to lose the training wheels, as it were.

What do you guys think are, i don't want to say "bare minimum," but rather the basic requirements to get started freehanding?

Some folks tend to get a bit carried away with this type of thing, so let's put a $75 maximum outlay on these basic materials. And the less the $ outlay the better, as long as the beginning needs are covered.

Name names on the stones, if you like, but it's not mandatory. But please do provide stone types and their grit numbers and why you consider them as essential for starting out freehanding.

And of course i know i'm not mentioning things or asking about things i should. So please feel free to add what you like.

I would only ask that we keep this under control and avoid exceeding the $75 monetary limit.

Thanks.
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I am partial to the block I make (link through signature below) as it is pretty versatile and easily customized. It also amplifies tactile feedback so easier to learn freehand. It also is very effective at long term maintenance and finishing, where you will do most of your edge work once the geometry is set.

Ultimately you will need a coarse, medium, and fine abrasive surface - this is the basic requirement. You can flesh this out to either end with extra coarse and extra fine etc, but for all intents and purposes three will work great.

The Norton combination India or Crystalon stone (coarse and medium surfaces) and for a strop, wrapping paper around the same stone and applying compound to that (fine). This is about as basic as it gets and still give strong results. If you use the Crystalon stone, you can even skip getting honing compound and reclaim the mud that forms on the stone in use. You can stop at the medium finish for a utility edge, or even at the coarse level for a hard-use edge. But for finer pressure cutting you will need a finer abrasive surface than the "fine" side of a combination stone.

Another option is the King 240, 800 and 4k stones. Any waterstone brand can be built out in this manner and I recommend if go this route, get them all from the same line-up/brand. A coarse stone (DMT XC is a nice one) followed by an 800 or 1k, and anything from 4k -8k as a finish. Waterstones really don't need to be followed with a strop.

A zillion options, just remember to get those three grades of abrasive.

Martin
 
HeavyHanded said:
I am partial to the block I make (link through signature below) as it is pretty versatile and easily customized. It also amplifies tactile feedback so easier to learn freehand. It also is very effective at long term maintenance and finishing, where you will do most of your edge work once the geometry is set.
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I read about your system and how to use it. It is intruiging. No where did i see a price.

Do you have an opinion on the Smith's 6" Diamond Tri-Hone?
 
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Heavy Handed system is a good learning tool for the feedback it provides.
And .. Read the stickies on this sub forum, especially the one started by Magnanimous. Very good basic concept.
 
mykem said:
I read about your system and how to use it. It is intruiging. No where did i see a price.

Do you have an opinion on the Smith's 6" Diamond Tri-Hone?
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The WB kit is 47 + shipping. In the US it comes to $60 to your door.

I like the Smith's diamond plates though they are maybe not as durable as the DMT products. I have a coarse and fine for well over a decade now and still work well. Am not sure about their Arkansas stones.

My product aside, for what the trihone costs I would be more inclined to get one of the jumbo sized Norton combination stones, some mineral oil, a few sheets of paper and some Flexcut Gold honing compound. It is possible on most steels to follow the fine India stone with a Spyderco Fine ceramic and that would be a good complete set as well though maybe scraping the ceiling of your price limit.

The Crystalon is my most oft recommended as it has good grind speed, good tactile feedback, a self refreshing surface and very sharp abrasive that allows for a lot of learning on your technique such as super light finish work. The reclaimed grit makes an excellent improvised stropping compound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF2Y7Hha0MQ

The diamond plates are great for high carbide steel, but for everything else they are never my first choice and I don't recommend learning on them unless most or all your steels are high carbide.

To start, look at getting something that works reliably and allows you to develop some skills. It takes a good foundation to make use of the finer abrasives anyway, so the coarse and medium are going to be your best friends to learn on and also good for 80% of all sharpening needs going forward.

Waterstones in general are a great medium, but also have a longer learning curve than a basic vitreous bench stone and every brand and line has its own character. The Kings are good for a starter set, are inexpensive and good on most steel - excellent on carbon such as machetes, hatchets, bushcraft knives, and also on lower RC stainless such as common kitchen knives and inexpensive pocket knives. They struggle with higher RC stainless and fail on most carbide steel at anything above an 800 or 1000 grit finish.
 
HeavyHanded said:
the block I make (link through signature below) as it is pretty versatile and easily customized

The Norton combination ... Crystalon stone (coarse and medium surfaces) and for a strop, wrapping paper around the same stone and applying compound to that (fine). This is about as basic as it gets and still give strong results. If you use the Crystalon stone, you can even skip getting honing compound and reclaim the mud that forms on the stone in use.
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That!! The high quality Norton Crystolon stone can be had at $21 in 8X2x1
 
I wont get into oilstone vs waterstone. I like both and there are reasons for each. regardless, both need good technique.

I would get the Norton combo stone (coarse/fine india 2x8) for $20. yes, the crystolon stone cuts more aggressively to set a new bevel. however, i think if you are starting, a less aggressive stone will be more forgiving. a bad pass will not do much damage to your bevel and having to spend a bit more time on the stone will help build a consistent repetitive technique. make sure you can get a good edge with this one stone (2 grits) then worry about what to buy next. use another $20 of your budget to get a few used flea market kitchen knives to practice or ask family for donor knives they want to get rid of. and another $10 of your budget for an inexpensive 5x/10x magnifier to see your edges. then enjoy the learning process.
 
Woodstock SteeleX D1130 1000 Grit and 6000 Grit Japanese Waterstone plus a cheap ($10) extra coarse / coarse combo stone have served me very well for the last couple of years.
 
redeagle66 said:
use another $20 of your budget to get a few used flea market kitchen knives to practice or ask family for donor knives they want to get rid of. and another $10 of your budget for an inexpensive 5x/10x magnifier to see your edges. then enjoy the learning process.
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My Family has brought me knives by the BOXES to practice on. Even did 2 Ducks Unlimited knife block sets for my Brother. The WORST set was a friend of the family's $75 kitchen knife set that I think she hadn't ever sharpened in 10 years. She told me last night that after 2 months of using them- they still scare her how sharp I got them. Last night she told me, "She's still scared of giving herself stitches!" Think chunks missing.. bent tips.. steak knives set that her own Mother said, "butter knives are sharper" before I got a hold of them! 9 hours of work on 11 knives to fix them.

Or the set that my Brother's G-Friend brought over that she'd been using as ice picks... ohhh the horror! :O I got them fixed up with a lot of work/ learning on! :) Didn't cost me anything and they got a knives that actually work/cut.

"A sharp knife is a safe knife!"
 
Any time you buy from the dealers (green names) or craftsmen/craftswomen (orange names) you are supporting the businesses who pay for those subscriptions, and their continued success in turn supports the forum through their continued subscriptions.

You can buy from whoever you want and I am not endorsing the washboard product per se, having no experience with it myself. Just answering your more general question about how supporting the paying vendors supports the site.

Back on topic - freehand sharpening is a manual skill that improves over time the more you do it, assuming you are observing your results and refining your technique either by trial and error or by studying the methods of those more skilled.

My advice to a novice sharpener from another learner - spend your time, not your money. You can learn the basic principles off of any flat abrasive medium that is harder than the steel of your knives.

I would honestly suggest a Norton combination oil stone of some variety and some honing oil, along with a handful or two of beater knives that you can learn on. Personally I used old kitchen knives that weren't bad quality per se but had been subject to years of neglect. In addition to a stone, an inexpensive magnifier and a Sharpie- type marker are key for the observation steps.

Once you have the basics down you can start to spend money on the fancier toys.
 
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