A Rat Pick Tool?

R

RatHead

Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
12

Hi, I am new here and would like some opinions on a steel pick I recently bought. I suspect it is a Swamp Rat tool sold under another name.

Like many others I was quite surprised to see that Shomer-Tec is selling a Swamp Rat Folder. So when I spotted another knife on their site the description made me very curious. Could it be there is more being sold by Shomer-Tec?

At Shomer-Tec they sell a tool they call the "Shomer Pic". See it at: http://tinyurl.com/68e9o

The Shomer description includes:
...made exclusively for Shomer-Tec by one of the top U.S. knife makers.
...It's constructed of one of the most indestructible knife steels
...covered in a super tough crinkle coating for added protection.
...we can not reveal the name of the manufacturer

I Googled "crinkle knife" and it seems only Swamp Rat and Busse use "crinkle" as a descriptor. Perhaps the steel can't be mentioned because "sr-101" would be one huge hint.

The shape and specs of the knife are interesting too. The Howling Rat and Bandicoot are also made of a 3/16", RC 58-60, crinkle coated, most indestructible steel.

I am wondering if it might be the by-product of Howling Rat or Bandicoot production. Could it be the stock cut off when shaping a rat? Are howlers made from bar stock?

Here are the two knives and the two shown together by the magic of Photoshop. The Howling rat is 9" total and The Shomer pick is 8".

What do you think? It would seem way past coincidence.
I'd call it the secret "Rat Pick".

RatPick.gif



I wrote to Swamp Rat about this and they didn't object to it being posted while not commenting on the accuracy of any of it.

Having used the pick I can say that it is indeed tough as anything and surprisingly useful to have around.

RatHead
 
nice catch rathead. i noticed that too, but i must have been buzzed, cause the short term memory loss must have




what was i saying?
 
Nice theory.

One "fit" flaw I see is that the handle of the Howler is molded into that config. The underlying tang is not that shape.
 
thatmguy said:
One "fit" flaw I see is that the handle of the Howler is molded into that config. The underlying tang is not that shape.
Click to expand...

The tang is indeed a different shape, but that shape would actually allow that section of the pick (the business end) to be bigger. So the shape it is remains entirely possible. There would have to be several stock removals to form the pick. I'd think that the similarity to the Howler or Bandicoot molded handle would be a coincidence. The result of forming the available stock into a pick proportional to the oddly thin handle.

I think the thin part of the pick is the biggest clue because nobody would put that thin a section in by design- only out of need. The need being created by that part being the tallest aspect of the knife which would determine the width of the barstock. The rest of the pick would be formed into the best design which could be derived from the odd shaped section of steel left over from making the initial knife blank.

This thing is so oddly shaped I'm convinced it must be leftover stock from some knife and the coating on the thing is just like Swap Rate crinkle.

Can anyone think of another company using that type of crinkle coat?
 
oh, it's a rat pic tool.
don' let thatcompanyguy pull the fuzzies over your eyes!
 
Coating looks like a match, but comparing digital pictures can be very deceiving. Given that the business end is so thin, I'd be it's more likely the trimmings from Bandicoot blanks - the bandicoot blade is much closer to the tang in height, so you'd have less metal to work with. Another clue might be the diameter of the hole and how it's finished.

On the other hand, I wouldn't think the shop would be ashamed to put it's name on anything it made - either it was built right, or it wouldn't be built, from scrap, virgin stock, or CBL cans.
 

Tohatchi NM said:
Coating looks like a match, but comparing digital pictures can be very deceiving. Given that the business end is so thin, I'd be it's more likely the trimmings from Bandicoot blanks - the bandicoot blade is much closer to the tang in height, so you'd have less metal to work with. Another clue might be the diameter of the hole and how it's finished.

On the other hand, I wouldn't think the shop would be ashamed to put it's name on anything it made - either it was built right, or it wouldn't be built, from scrap, virgin stock, or CBL cans.
Click to expand...
There are some pictures below of the crinkle to give you a better idea.
I would think they could be from both Howlers and Bandicoots

The hole is 9/32nds wide as far as I can measure. Crinkle coat inside the hole and rounded edges.

I think the primary motivation to sell it under a different name is due to the thin part which may compromise it's strength more than would be acceptible for the company name. Not that it isn't strong as hell.

John-Boy said:
That's kind of a cool chunk of steel. Anyone have one?
Click to expand...
I have this one and it certainly feels ratish. Here are a couple pictures which may give a better view. Check the crinkle. What do you think?
crinkle.gif

2.jpg

 
voracious said:
oh, it's a rat pic tool.
don' let thatcompanyguy pull the fuzzies over your eyes!
Click to expand...

I agree. There is a lot of stuff leaving that shop that we never see, Rat or Busse. I also seem to recall a drunken (I was drunk) conversation with Jerry a few years ago where he said something about making a small knife out of INFI left over from cutting out BM tangs. Waste not, want not and all that. Might have been thinking out loud, may have been in practice, don't know. We were talking about other things and it wasn't pursued.

Could you link this over to Rat Chat? Would make for some interesting conversation over in the Swamp.

Rob
 
wetdog1911 said:
I agree. There is a lot of stuff leaving that shop that we never see, Rat or Busse. I also seem to recall a drunken (I was drunk) conversation with Jerry a few years ago where he said something about making a small knife out of INFI left over from cutting out BM tangs. Waste not, want not and all that. Might have been thinking out loud, may have been in practice, don't know. We were talking about other things and it wasn't pursued.

Could you link this over to Rat Chat? Would make for some interesting conversation over in the Swamp.

Rob
Click to expand...
**i dunno anything for sure, and i'm drunk**
when they cut the blanks out of the sheet of steel there's gonna be leftovers: skeleton keys, rat shakers, NIPS, why not rat pick tools?
i can see the logic of only selling these to shomer-tec. ship one box instead of a couple hundred individual ones.
looks like it would make a nice kubotan if it was a little shorter.
jody
 
wetdog1911 said:
I agree. There is a lot of stuff leaving that shop that we never see, Rat or Busse. I also seem to recall a drunken (I was drunk) conversation with Jerry a few years ago where he said something about making a small knife out of INFI left over from cutting out BM tangs. Waste not, want not and all that. Might have been thinking out loud, may have been in practice, don't know. We were talking about other things and it wasn't pursued.

Could you link this over to Rat Chat? Would make for some interesting conversation over in the Swamp.
Click to expand...
I don't know Busse that well, so I thought Howler or Bandicoot. But this pick (very barely) reminds me of the short lived and far cooler Nuclear Ice Pick in INFI by Busse. See: http://homepage.mac.com/zombiekiller/badmojo/04nip.html

Does anyone know a Busse this could come off of? The Shomer Pick is 3/16" thick. Does Busse do anything in 3/16 or is it all 1/4?

Could this be an INFI-Pick rather than a Rat-Pick? :footinmou
 
RatHead said:
I don't know Busse that well, so I thought Howler or Bandicoot. But this pick (very barely) reminds me of the short lived and far cooler Nuclear Ice Pick in INFI by Busse. See: http://homepage.mac.com/zombiekiller/badmojo/04nip.html

Does anyone know a Busse this could come off of? The Shomer Pick is 3/16" thick. Does Busse do anything in 3/16 or is it all 1/4?

Could this be an INFI-Pick rather than a Rat-Pick? :footinmou
Click to expand...

I don't think so, you are probably correct about the HR or the Coot. If it was INFI, well you see the NIP, or like Jody said, the AS, SK etc. Busse does some in 3/16, but the vast majority is 1/4" or thicker.

Rob
 
wetdog1911 said:
I don't think so, you are probably correct about the HR or the Coot. If it was INFI, well you see the NIP, or like Jody said, the AS, SK etc. Busse does some in 3/16, but the vast majority is 1/4" or thicker.

Rob
Click to expand...
Actually, the more I compare the shape of the Shomer pic to the latest knives in the in the Busse company store: http://bussecompanystore.com/knives.htm
the more it looks more like a Busse than it does a Rat. :footinmou The profile is just a much better match. Here is an obviously manipulated illustration of how the pick follows the Busse contour. Here is the pick's shape compared to the shape of a Busse Meaner Street (not 3/16) I find the shapes to be to be pretty darn close and a less wasteful way to make a pick than doing additional stock removal off a Howler or Bandicoot.
out.gif

It could be something like the blank leftover of a Busse Nuclear ARK as shown on the Busse site above and which is made from 3/16", but is hard to find a good picture of.

Is Swamp Rat coming out with a knife in that contour and a bit over 8" long?

Maybe I should ask the Busse forum and see if they can figure out where this came from?

 
RH

That it came out of Wauseon sounds like a good bet. That it is INFI is more than a little doubtful. INFI is a propriatary steel and very expensive to boot. I just can't see any leaving the shop without the Busse name.

SR101 ('tweaked' 52100) isn't propriatary, well, 52100 isn't. Great steel it is, especially after Busse's (also propriatary) magic heat treat, but other people use it as well (52100).

Would be neat if they were INFI though, eh?

Rob
 
rathead-
is there any nekked steel? even a scratch? if so, wet it and let it dry a couple times. if it's infi it won't rust.
i'm pretty sure it isn't infi anyway but, if you are really curious, well, infi don't rust easily. to speed the process, use a tomato.
 
wetdog1911 said:
RH

That it came out of Wauseon sounds like a good bet. That it is INFI is more than a little doubtful. INFI is a propriatary steel and very expensive to boot. I just can't see any leaving the shop without the Busse name.
Click to expand...

It is for the very reason that INFI is expensive, that Jerry would want to make the most use out of every square inch of it that he can, to maximize his production, and therefore his profits, from each sheet (or bar, as the case may be). So if he's using sheets, unless he can put the patterns together so tight that there's not enough room for anything in between, then to design a pattern for a slim knife or pick that can fit perfectly between the other knife patterns is a smart idea because if not, all the unused INFI left over on that sheet is wasted. If he's using exclusively barstock, and there's enough room underneath the blade or the handle for a small neck knife pattern, then why not make use of what would otherwise go to the scrap heap or the recyclery?

And lots of stuff leaves the shop without the Busse name on them. Some of it finds its way into our hands, but most of it we've never seen or heard of. God only knows the stuff Jerry has designed, made, and quietly sold to military and police units the world over, be it INFI or pre-INFI.

This doesn't mean that this Shomer Pick is or isn't INFI. I'm just saying that these aren't reasons to rule out the possibility of it being INFI.
 
voracious said:
rathead-
is there any nekked steel? even a scratch? if so, wet it and let it dry a couple times. if it's infi it won't rust.
i'm pretty sure it isn't infi anyway but, if you are really curious, well, infi don't rust easily. to speed the process, use a tomato.
Click to expand...

Well, I took the coating off of the tip of the pick, since it was soo to go anyway, and dipped it in very salt water a few times until dry, then left it overnight in a salt water soaked papertowel. In the morning there were a couple of very small rust spots that rubbed away instantly by wiping it with my fingers. I hate tomatos.

How much that is like INFI I have no idea.

But I just can't get over how the pattern matches Busse so closely and the logic that if INFI is so expensive you would certainly look to sell the scraps.

I wouldn't fault anyone for doing it. As long as the company name was removed then why not? Doesn't diminish the brand at all - just shows that thier scrap is another's top quality.
 
It didnt rust bad enough to be SR101, hmmmmmmmmm.........

I've put bare SR101 in the wet and it started showing oxydation after a few minuts, same conditions and INFI didnt show any discoloration. I think you may have stumbled upon something rather special.
 
It's my impression that it's not INFI until after the heat-treat. Perhaps it's a clipping that comes from a Busse, but not given the full INFI heat treatment- just a purely adequate one. Just my thoughts...

Cheers,
BJB :D
 
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