A SAK question for our moderators

Bronco

Bronco

Moderator
Joined
Feb 25, 2000
Messages
7,580
To be perfectly honest with you, I had never really considered the SAK to be an essential piece of survival gear until I started perusing this forum. Despite having blades made from what I considered to be mediocre steel at best, you and the members of this forum have made some pretty compelling arguments on behalf of these little wonders, and I have to admit that I now view them in a totally different light.

Now that my conversion is complete, I've since been trying to figure out which features are most important, and subsequently which model with the lightest weight (an important consideration for backpackers) incorporates a majority of these features.
Unfortunately I ran into a roadblock almost as soon as I got started. I'm assuming (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that the magnifying glass found on some of the Victorinox SAKs could be a very useful item indeed to have with you in the event of an unexpected backwoods survival scenario. It appears though, that this feature is only found on the largest and heaviest "everything but the kitchen sink" models that Victorinox offers (and I don't believe I've seen a magnifying glass on any of the Wegner models). Obviously this extra weight is not much good for extended backpacking treks where every extra ounce quickly adds up.

Assuming there isn't already a lightweight, "survival optimized" SAK model out there that I've missed, I'm betting that if a number of the country's leading wilderness/survival instructors banded together and presented a unified front, their collective influence might very well be able to convince Victorinox to produce just such an animal. I doubt it would be too difficult to come to a consensus as to which features are most important and which ones represent dead weight. I imagine a large locking blade, magnifying glass, saw and can opener/screwdriver blade is probably a pretty good place to start. Let's face it, Victorinox already makes about 50 versions of their SAK, what difference is one more going to make? Any thoughts from the experts?

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Semper Fi

-Bill

[This message has been edited by Bronco (edited 02-01-2001).]
 
My best friend and hunting buddy, was stranded for several sub-freezing October days in a cave on the upper Skeena River in northern BC a few years back after his raft overturned when he and his buddy misjudged a minor (10 foot) waterfall. He used his SAK Officer's model, fortunately equipped with a saw, to cut firewood. Don't leave home without one.
 
Along with the blade and saw, the scissors would be good for first aid purposes. I've found it easier to cut skin in a controled manner with them than the knife blade.

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Run and you only die tired....
The art of being wise is knowing what to overlook.
Take the Test...
 
I used to have the Wegner that sports the small Mag Glass with small/flat screw driver on its tip.
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Sorry everyone... I am not fond of the SAK. Never have been and am still not.

I prefer a good folder or small fixed blade, a medium knife... axe in the winter... and a chainsaw blade for cutting with. I carry these independent of one another and find they are far more durable and meet MY needs better.

Sorry to open up the can of worms and am patiently awaiting the SAK supporters onslot of "what a dummmy..."
smile.gif


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Greg Davenport
Simply Survival's Wilderness Survival Forum
Simply Survival's Web Page
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?
 
I found this post interesting, I don't know about this so please tell me I am wrong if so. Doesn't a magnifying glass need direct sunlight too work properly? In most cases that I have been in there was little or no sunlight when I needed a fire! ie, Dark, or overcast winter days. I will admit a SAK would be a good pocket knife too have if in a survival setting but not the one I would risk my life too! I hope I didn't step on anyones toes here. Just my opinions.
 
I've had several SAK's over the years, both wegner and victorinox. Based on the knives I've had, victorinox is the better of the two. First off, if you break something on a victorinox, no matter what you did to break it, the company replaces it, no questions asked. I had a stupid friend that tested this by making some pyrodex and blowing his knife up. he sent the few pieces he managed to find into the company and got a brand new knife back. I only broke one victorinox and it was promptly exchanged. Wegner wouldn't even return my phone calls.

I currently use the Swiss Champ, which is that "everything but the kitchen sink" knife. I thought it was pretty huge too when I ordered it, but really it's not all that physically large. It's only about 3/4" wide and 3" long, so it fits easilly in your pocket. I've never regretted getting this knife, and it goes everywhere with me. I can't even count the number of things I do with it when I camp, but I've also used it to build computers, fix my car by the side of the road, install ceiling fans, you name it. About the only thing I haven't done with this thing is perform the legendary Swiss Army Tracheotomy ;) Even the stuff I thought was stupid, like the built in pin and the pen, have been used pretty heavilly.

I've used several other utility tools -- the multitools, etc. . .They've all been cheap compared to the SAK. As far as pure utility, this knife has just about anything else beat by a ton.

 
I generally agree with the items Greg carries but find my Victorinox Fieldmaster (100 g. -- less than 4 oz.) to be a great adjunct to my other blades. I especially use the scissors, saw, tweezers, and toothpick, those things not found on a single bladed folder or fixed blade (which I also carry).

I got used to carrying a SAK in the Army. Most soldiers carried a personal pocket knife, the lucky ones had a SAK.

Bruce Woodbury
 
Hey Guys...

The models you'll want to pick up is the RUK SAK or the Outrider...

Both have longer locking blades. Exactly what you want...

The tools on a knife you'll want to look for is:

Locking blade
Saw
Awl
Scissors

The other tools are Redundant...

The Outrider has all of the above and is not much bigger than the RUK model..

Both are Excellent blades. My RUK gets used more than any other knife I own and is with my 110% of the time I'm in the bush.

I find that the SAK is easy to sharpen,and can get a Scary edge on it Very quick.

ttyle

Eric...

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On/Scene Tactical
Leading The Way In Quality Synthetic Sheathing
 
I've carried a Victorinox since the age of eight and they could throw one into my coffin, just in case
smile.gif


Greg is a full time survivalist and I agree with a whole lot of things he says, but not on this one. I could think of a shed load of stuff to make a survival situation comfortable, but then it wouldn't be survival but an expedition.

The answer to "what is the best knife in a survival situation" has always been:"The One You Have On You." If you wear a suite or swimming trunks you are not going to be carring a large folder, but you could carry a smaller SAK. - Anywhere In The World. No one is going to take offence even on airlines or beside a swimming pool. You'll carry it because it has a bottle opener, scissors and cork screw in places where another knife would look out of place. You can take it dingy sailing and not feel you might sink. Its the unexpected time when everything goes wrong. Its when you have gone walkabout away from your kit that you need that tool now.

I used to carry mine in my front right hand pocket on a piece of string attached to my trousers. I'd have to lose my trousers to lose my kife. I like the Huntsman. Large blade, scissors, and wood saw being my favourite items, (the tweezers are great as well). The Huntsman is as big as I want to go. Keep to the smaller SAKS, as once you go bigger you won't carry it as often. Bulging front pocket syndrome, hello girls, wears off after a while
wink.gif
The whole point of a SAK is that you can carry it all the time, anywhere.

The slip lock is fine as it makes you think before you cut. The steel is not that good with the kind of forces used with a fixed/locked design.

The magnifying glasses are not up to the job of fire lighting.

Now a Survival Huntsman with a Philips screw driver and some kind of flint would be even better. But so long as it didn't get bigger. My type of SAK is not a tool box substitute, nor even a replacement for a fixed blade. They are just a way of life.

PS: I've skinned, built, fixed more with my SAK than all my other tools put together - by far. Thats because I've had it with me.
 
Greenjacket,

hmmmmmmm... you bring up some good points. I enjoyed reading them.

I have a lot of students that use the SAK and with great success. I have one or two instructors that alternate between the SAK and a leatherman. Guess... I got left behind on this one.

Last year one of my students from Austria gave me a SAK as a gift. I will have to take it with me on my next trip (in one week) and see how it does...

Perhaps even this middle aged openionated outdoorsman can be converted...
smile.gif


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Greg Davenport
Simply Survival's Wilderness Survival Forum
Simply Survival's Web Page
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?
 
Greg,
First off, my apologies for insinuating in my above post that you were in fact a fan of the SAK. Guess I haven't really spent as much time here as I should after all.
redface.gif


Your short list of recommended gear looks formidable indeed, and I'm in no way suggesting that the "Survival SAK" need be a replacement for any of these items. Quite the opposite, in fact. I see this notional SAK as merely something to compliment your regular kit. That's one of the big reasons that I'd like to keep down the bulk and weight to the max extent possible. As we see more and more fixed blade sheaths now being made with that small pouch on the front, it's my thought that the Survival SAK could simply be tossed in there and forgotten about until needed. I've even thought that it might be cool if one of the scales on the Survival SAK was actually a sharpening stone of some sort (strictly for use on your other primary blades).

firstsuspect,
In most cases I'd say that you're correct. I have had success with a magnifying glass in what might be described as hazy conditions, but it wasn't all that thick of a layer. Still, there are many cold clear days (possibly preceding what will be an even colder night) where a fire would be nice, and the magnifying glass seems like a fairly low effort method of getting one started (provided you happen to find yourself without your other more traditional fire making tools).

Thanks to all for the thoughtful comments.

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Semper Fi

-Bill
 
Greenjacket and Greg,
I missed your last exchange while I was composing my previous post. I'm surprised to hear that the magnifying glasses on the larger SAKs are incapable of starting a fire. What are the lenses made of? Would a slightly larger magnifying glass possibly make a difference?

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Semper Fi

-Bill
 
Bronco,
The Scientist model is only 2 springs wide and has a large blade, botttle opener/screwdriver, magnifying glass, phillips, corkscrew and awl. The Yeoman is 3 springs wide and has scissors. Both of these models are discontinued but available on ebay.

I tried starting a fire with my Yeoman this morning and had no problem.
 
I wish I could count the number of times that my SAK has come in handy where other knives just didn't "cut it." Like using the tweezers to remove a splinter or tick from myself or one of my kids, getting that piece of venison out from between two teeth, making a clean 90 degree cut with the saw, opening cans in camp when no canopener was available, taking a damaged or fogged scope off a gun while hunting, fixing eyeglasses, adjusting small pistol sights, opening a nice bottle of Cabin Fever for me and my gf to enjoy, etc, etc, etc. I've used SAK's to dress deer when no other knife was available. I even used one to cut down an inmate in our jail who was trying to hang himself.

I can take it onto an airplane or other sheeple friendly environment and not have to worry about looks, glares, or stares.
I can take it through Customs.

It may not have the best blade steel, but I tell you what, I can make mine scary sharp in about 1 minute on a sharpmaker 204. It may not be the sturdiest knife out there, but I intentionally tried to break a Recruit model just to see what would happen - it broke, but only under so severe a stress that I don't believe I could do it under field conditions, using it for it's intended purposes.

I have the utmost faith and confidence in my SAK's and include them in every kit or bug out bag I have or make for friends and family.

Greg, Try it, You'll like it.

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It's not the pace of life that concerns me, It's the sudden stop at the end.
 
If Vicorinox took custom orders i'd have them stick a file and a pair of scissors in my trailmaster. Also would tell them not to liner lock the bottle opener. That springy steel locks the blade and bottle opener up real nice but for the life of me i can't figure out why the bottle opener needs a liner lock! Maybe you guys can answer that question. Stop smoothing out the edges of the screwdriver point. And lastly have a (
smile.gif
insert miracle steel
wink.gif
) blade.

After all of these modifications I'd add a lanyard and a ferrocium rod to it incase I get lost.

Now this would be * MY * ideal SAK.
 
the bottle opener has a liner lock because the end of it is also a flathead screwdriver, which would be hard to use if it wasn't locked in place.

The magnifying glass on my swiss champ has started many fires. It can be done. It's not nearly as easy as with those big magnifying glasses we used to burn stuff as kids, but if you're patient and have a steady hand you can do it.

I've used every blade on my knife. Even the ones I thought were useless (the magnifying glass being one of them ;)


I think what I appreciate the most about SAK's is the fact that every blade (except the actual knives, and the wood saw) has 2 or more functions built in - - -the fish scaler has a ruler, the can opener has a small screwdriver for phillips screws (for the knives that don't have a phillips driver), the bottle opener has a flathead screwdriver and a wirestripper, the corkscrew has a jewelers screwdriver twisted into it (only on certain models), etc. The design of some of these blades is really quite brilliant.


 
I'll add my name to the list of SAK fans. I have to agree 100% with Greenjacket. However, in recent years, I have relied more and more on a multitool. I used to carry some pretty good sized SAKs but now, the only SAK I carry regulary is a small one. And I use the toothpick and fingernail file every day and the small phillips on mine is always handy. But the big SAK in my pocket has been replaced--currently--by a leatherman pulse. However, I still keep an SAK Hunter in my coat or sometimes in my glove compartment. I try to keep it close.

As for a magnifying glass, I always carry one. As a field biologist who works with insects, I never go anywhere without one. I haven't started a fire with one, though, since I was a kid in Boy Scouts.
smile.gif


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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
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