A Schrade Knife collectors' worst nightmare...issue with Schrade Loveless Knife.

Motey

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This doesn't look like the same thing that is happening to Larry's knife, but I saw it on the Bay and thought the image might be good to save for posterity. The seller wants top dollar for the knife, of course. ID number 221673613546 for while the listing lasts.

E6lKxQi.jpg


I've not seen a handle on this knife do this, so hopefully this can add to the discussion.
 
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This doesn't look like the same thing that is happening to Larry's knife, but I saw it on the Bay and thought the image might be good to save for posterity. The seller wants top dollar for the knife, of course. ID number 221673613546 for while the listing lasts.

If the seller wasn't asking so durned much, this would be a good prospect for re handling. I'd like to see what Herman Williams could do with it.
 
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That's a tough one there. The one with the faded handle looks as though to much oil was left on it after a wipe down. Oil turns acidic once it begins to degrade. This also might be the cause for the delrin degrading around the bolster. One must be selective before wiping down a safe queen and then storing it for years on end.

I know mineral oil turns acidic after sitting in a thin layer after time. This appears to be the cause for all the above IMO.

On the other hand, these would be prime canidtes for rehandling, although I know that's a hard decision to make after keeping it original for so many years.
 

Motey

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If the seller wasn't asking so durned much, this would be a good prospect for re handling. I'd like to see what Herman Williams could do with it.
Yeah, I thought the same thing about a re-handle job for a user knife.
 
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Yikes!!....no doubt miscleaned....I wonder what the spot on the handle was?...it's hideous to clean any knife "clean to almost Noooo"..why not leave the natural patina on this 40 year old knife?......I've never cleaned any of my collector knives....what is happening to mine was neither caused by cleaning or neglect....something more sinister with the aged Delrin....
Herman W has very kindly agreed to re-handle mine, and I will show the results in due course..he will also be able to perform an autopsy on it, once the handles are removed....
 
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That's a tough one there. The one with the faded handle looks as though to much oil was left on it after a wipe down. Oil turns acidic once it begins to degrade. This also might be the cause for the delrin degrading around the bolster. One must be selective before wiping down a safe queen and then storing it for years on end.

I know mineral oil turns acidic after sitting in a thin layer after time. This appears to be the cause for all the above IMO.

On the other hand, these would be prime canidtes for rehandling, although I know that's a hard decision to make after keeping it original for so many years.

I use mineral oil on all my knives. Is there a good substitute that doesn't turn acidic?
 
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Herman W has very kindly agreed to re-handle mine, and I will show the results in due course..he will also be able to perform an autopsy on it, once the handles are removed....
YAY! They say great minds think alike. ;)
I cannot wait to see the knife after MR. Williams gets done with it. :cool:
 

Motey

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Yikes!!....no doubt miscleaned....I wonder what the spot on the handle was?...it's hideous to clean any knife "clean to almost Noooo"..why not leave the natural patina on this 40 year old knife?......I've never cleaned any of my collector knives....what is happening to mine was neither caused by cleaning or neglect....something more sinister with the aged Delrin....
Herman W has very kindly agreed to re-handle mine, and I will show the results in due course..he will also be able to perform an autopsy on it, once the handles are removed....

As I look at it again, it seems a bit as though the Delrin HAS actually shrunk away from the hilt as well, perhaps similarly to your knife Larry?

$_57.jpg

Either way, I'm sure it's impossible to say for certain. But oddly enough the other side of the knife doesn't look to be in any way nearly as damaged than the one. Is it possible it could have had prolonged exposure to fluorescent light or maybe sunlight? Why would someone wipe only one side of the knife with oil?
 

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This doesn't look like the same thing that is happening to Larry's knife, but I saw it on the Bay and thought the image might be good to save for posterity. The seller wants top dollar for the knife, of course. ID number 221673613546 for while the listing lasts.

E6lKxQi.jpg


I've not seen a handle on this knife do this, so hopefully this can add to the discussion.

First of all, I would say this knife has been stored in a damp area. The box indicates that.
The brass bolts and eyelet have obviously been cleaned.
Like Larry, I would like to know more about the round marks.
Could it have been a sticker - it looks to have been there before the colour changed.

All three of my MIB knives have un-cleaned brass that do not shine like this knife. (they have been cleaned.)
My three knives have five perfect handles - One has that same "Dried white look, non shine".
Only about 3" of my knife has been effected; to date I have tried everything I can think of, to bring the shine back.
Every time I try another oil or cleaner; I only work on a small session at a time. I can not polish it out.. Ken
 

Motey

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First of all, I would say this knife has been stored in a damp area. The box indicates that.
The brass bolts and eyelet have obviously been cleaned.
Like Larry, I would like to know more about the round marks.
Could it have been a sticker - it looks to have been there before the colour changed.

All three of my MIB knives have un-cleaned brass that do not shine like this knife. (they have been cleaned.)
My three knives have five perfect handles - One has that same "Dried white look, non shine".
Only about 3" of my knife has been effected; to date I have tried everything I can think of, to bring the shine back.
Every time I try another oil or cleaner; I only work on a small session at a time. I can not polish it out.. Ken

I also wondered about the dampness issue. I thought I could see evidence of mold on the papers that were obviously in the box with the knife for however long.
 
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I have just got my 3 knives out to check them.
Two look perfect, same as they were last time I looked at them, when Larry started on this issue.
The other knife looks much better, since I cleaned it up with "EEX+X" gun oil, after Dale Vincent told me about it.
The only thing I found, was green Verdigris coming from one of the brass nut that hold the handles on.

The blade is made of Stainless steel - The handles were bolted on to the blade, by two stainless bolts, using brass nuts.
The area in question on Larry's knife, is next to the brass hilt.
I think we can start to question the Verdigris; and its' action on the handles.
When cleaning off the Verdigris, I would think one would drag the green Verdigris across the handle - the best way to clean off the green muck with a wet rag.

Verdigris: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verdigris

This is a stainless bold and nut - The Schrade knife used a stainless bolt with brass nuts.
$_57.JPG
 
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Codger_64

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I can only guess about the faded knife cover, but it appears to me to be the result of UV light over a long period of time, the "dot" protected by a price sticker. Maybe sunlight but more likely a lighted display cabinet. I've had some 165OT with this effect on the covers and a light oiling/burnishing restored them from their faded appearance.
 

ea42

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I'd agree with Michael, looks just like some of the delrin Old Timers I've seen that spent a good deal of time in sunlit window displays. The box was probably stored away sans knife. Likely the sheath met its demise from sunburn or mold.

Larry, I'm just guessing here but I don't think that handle on your knife vaporized from some kind of reaction. I wonder if perhaps it was an ill fitting handle due to a bad mold job, an overly heated guard from hafting, or solder residue. (BTW those guards were soldered on, not pinned, which was really quite a learning experience for the guys but was necessary due to Mr Loveless's insistence on going that route). It wasn't unheard of for the repair department to use colored fillers on short or ill fitting handles to close the gaps. Of course in time those fillers might tend to harden and fall out. I'm not saying for sure this is what happened with yours though, it's definitely possible that some kind of nasty chemical reaction occurred at some point there as well. Just throwing an idea out there.

Eric
 
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I have a number of Schrade fixed blade knives, some with red handles. My Custom Hunter is OK.
The only two things different on the Schrade - Loveless Hunter RL2, are the hilt and the bolds that hold the handle to the blade.
If the hilt was soldered to the blade, they must have used flux and flux is an acid.
Over 40 years I have done a lot of silver soldering, and always found it hard to remove the left over flux.
The green substance oozing out of the bolts on one of my RL2s is also acid.
We do not see bolts or rivers made of two different materials. Ken
 
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meako

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I'm kind of with Eric.
At first glance Larry's knife looked as though the glue has given up the ghost and left the gap.
Were they glued in some way? I dunno.
I do have a Schrade + 175 florist type of knife with white delrin.
One side is badly discoloured and dirty looking .
This I imagine is from it lying on a window shelf or something for a long time on one side.
No gaps tho.
Take heart mate -it is saveable.
cheers.
 

ea42

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Just spoke with Dave S. about this, he's as surprised as everyone else. Says he'd never seen it before, and is thinking that it may possibly have something to do with the solder or flux (possibly not cleaned and/or finished properly). He also said that it's possible that some went out with delrin covers, which might have had a reaction where micarta wouldn't have.

Eric
 
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As soon as Larry found this problem, I submerged my knives in worm soapy water for about an hour.
If it is the flux, this will help. If you put a knife in water (tested by a pool shop) and submerge for an hour or two; an other pool shop test may stop us all guessing.

Maybe GREY MENACE can do this, it could even save his and other RL2 knives...Ken.
 
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