A Sharper Campanion?

J. J. Magnum · May 9, 2000

I am an owner of an original BK&T Campanion. I bought it a few years ago new and have never been happy with the edge. The dealer I bought it through (and professional knife sharpener) even volenteered to resharpen it. He told me that he about wore out the stones on his Lansky but we could not discern any notable change.
I firmly believe the old advertisement which stated "suitable for field dressing a Buick" as this is one tough knife. However since I can't get it nearly as sharp as my other camping knives (its more of a tree beater than a tree cutter) I have relegated it to the back of the safe for emergencies only.
As Camillus is now the owner or producer of these blades I wondered if they had changed the grind angles to make them sharper, or if they could supply the proper angle so we could work on it again.
Like I said before this is a nifty knife and should be a great camper, if I could just get it properly sharpened. I read a lot of great things about this knife on these pages but I have yet to be convinced. Any help would be appreciated.

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Where no law exists there still must be justice- Dan Mahoney

bart · May 9, 2000

I put a freehand sharpening job on mine with Spyderco ceramic stones (an EZ Lap diamond rod to begin with) and it is awesome! It is one of the old BlackJack owned models. It will pop hair off. Still has a fairly steep primary bevel though, so it's not the most efficient cutter. Hope you gt yours sharp.

-Bart

Cliff Stamp · May 10, 2000

Sharpness is not influenced by the bevel angle. You can make even very obtuse bevels razor sharp if you want. As for reprofiling, if the edge was brought down so that it was a very good slicer (about 15 or so degrees), it would most likely get mauled on heavier work. It would be nice if the companies offered a sharpening option, but I don't think any production blade can be customized in this manner. However, you should easily be able to do this yourself and it should not wear out a decent stone.

If you are really in a hurry to reprofile it. Put a sanding drum on your dremel and grind the bevel down. You don't have to do this any way accurately. Then just finish using your regular sharpening method. This should take you about 5-10 minutes tops.

-Cliff

bart · May 12, 2000

Actually, I don't know why Cliff has to nitpick words like he does, but as defined by Webster's, sharpness means well adapted to cutting or piercing or having a thin edge or pointed shape. This to me says the "sharpness" is in fact influenced by secondary bevel angle. This keen angle will give you good shallow cutting ability, but the fairly thick primary bevel, as mentioned in my first post, will not allow this knife to be a terribly efficient cutter. I did a comparo with some other knives, for example, and the BK&T wouldn'y bite into wood as well in a chop. It will still lop off 1" limbs without too much trouble, though. I didn't mean for this post to be terribly anal, but you know how Cliff is a stickler for details

Have a good one.

-Bart

bart · May 12, 2000

One other thing. Since the knife does have a steep bevel from the factory, is is possible that when sharpening, you weren't getting all the way to the edge? This would explain why you couldn't tell any difference. You might mark the edge with a Magic Marker and try to see if you are hitting it all. Hope that helps, you've agot a fun knife.

-Bart

Cliff Stamp · May 13, 2000

The reason I commented on the term is primarily because it is a constant source of confusion and leads to problems when people are trying to learn how to sharpen a knife. Someone will ask "I can't get XXX razor sharp." Someone else will say "Try lowering the bevels that should help." The first person goes away and spends several hours removing lots of metal and it makes no effect at all. If you can't make a blade at 30 degrees shave then you are not going to have much success just because you lower the sharpening angle. What is critical are the properties of the very edge so you have to make sure that you are making the bevels meet, using the right grits, removing the burr etc. . The angle does not influence any of this at all.

Besides this point I don't think allowing sharpness to cover cutting ability in general is in any way sensible as a defination. It should be restricted to the properties of the very edge. For example, within a week of getting my Battle Mistress I rounded out the index finger cutout a lot and smoothed out the grinds in that area. The cutting ability of the knife made a huge jump because of this. I could exert much more force on what I was cutting with much more control. However did I "sharpen" the knife? You can also greatly influence the cutting ability by the handle design. I have spent the better part of a week making the Basic #7 handle better fit my hand. It now cuts much better. I don't regard this as sharpening it.

-Cliff

bart · May 12, 2000

Cliff-

Good point about sharpness not necessarily defining cutting ability. Note that this knife has great handles and will cut better than most it's size due to increased edge control and security, which means confidence. I mentioned this briefly in my review, which I saw you read. I do think this gentleman is referring to secondary edge bevel and, more importantly, final edge in this post though. Unless you just got a crazy heat treat, this knife will get "sharp".

-Bart

J. J. Magnum · May 12, 2000

Thanks guys for the replies to my inquiry. I'm not really sure why I can't seem to get a real shaving sharp edge on this knife. My primary purpose in buying it was for Search and Rescue (SAR) work here in the Southeast. At the time I was Ground Team coordinator and Assistant Squadron Commander (Cadets) for our local Civil Air Patrol. A fellow law enforcement practitioner (a former Navy SEAL)showed me his Campanion one night and I was very impressed. I felt that if it was capable of field dressing a Buick, it certainly could do the same to a Cessna! In tests with wrecked aircraft parts it performed the task adequately. Still, I have never been impressed with the edge for standard camping tasks. I have a Camillus Pilot Survival knife that is sharper but not as comfortable to use.
Again thanks for the replies. I was begining to think no one really cared or that I had brought up a dead topic. I look forward to any other thoughts you or others may have.

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Where no law exists there still must be justice- Dan Mahoney

Cliff Stamp · May 15, 2000

While it is probably not overly likely that a large production company will customize a few models there are alternatives. You could for example send a companion to a custom maker to reprofile the edge. There are several makers who sharpen tools for a living. You might want to make a post in the Shop Talk forum if you are considering this.

For sharpening issues you should probably first read through :

http://www.bladeforums.com/features/faqsharp.shtml

If you still can't get a sharp edge on your companion, then make a post in the general forum. Another option would be to send it back in. Is this an option like with Spyderco, Benchmade and others?

-Cliff

J. J. Magnum · May 28, 2000

My thanks to Will, Cliff, and Bart for all their help and understanding with my dilema regarding this Campanion. Looking at the responses I received, I firmly believe that the problem wiht the Lansky system was the thickness of the blade back. I just don't think the clamp could hold the blade for an effective job on the edge. The problem then seemed to be to work directly on the edge in a way whereby the back of the blade didn't interfere with the process, while maintaining the proper angle. Believe it or not I think I have the problem solved.
Last week while attending the NRA Convention in Charlotte, NC I had the occassion to talk with the folks at Myerco (who had a booth). They showed me a sharpener called the "Sharpen-it". The staff then proceeded to sharpen my SAK to an edge like it has never had, despite my best efforts with all sorts of sharpeners. So I said, "What the heck?", I bought one.
A few passes over the carbide wheels then a few more over the ceramic wheels and now my Campanion is as sharp as any other knife I have. I am truly impressed.
If any one is looking for a great sharpener check it out. If it can sharpen this knife, it can sharpen anything.
Thanks again for all your help.

James Mattis · May 28, 2000

My Campanion came out of the box arm-hair shaving sharp. I chopped through a 4" log a couple or three times with it, and then shaved some more arm hair. That's about as good as it gets, isn't it?

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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001

Hoodoo · May 28, 2000

I'm with James. Mine came extremely sharp and I took a big mallet to it and lopped off some fair sized limbs in just a few seconds work. But I'm also impressed with the slicing ability of this knife. This actually surprised me. It will slice through some fair sized sisal rope like it's butter. The more I use this knife, the more impressed I am with it. BTW, mine is the new version.

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Hoodoo

The low, hoarse purr of the whirling stonethe light-pressd blade,
Diffusing, dropping, sideways-darting, in tiny showers of gold,
Sparkles from the wheel.

Walt Whitman

J. J. Magnum · May 29, 2000

James and Hoodoo;
Perhaps mine was an aberation, I don't know, but now that it is sharp I agree with all you have said. This is a great knife and will return to it's rightful place on my LBE gear. While I think it's still too short for a lot of chopping, it certainly will do everything else. After all I now have my Billhook to do the rest!

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Where no law exists there still must be justice- Dan Mahoney

DM Driscoll · Jun 7, 2000

I never fails to stun me

that people will spend significant $$ on a tool & complacently decide that if it can "shave arm hair" or "hack through such & such limb" it must be 'good.'
Yup, my new Campanion shaved arm hair, but I took one look at the chunky bevel & thought it would be atrocious at the REAL tasks I expect my knives to perform in the outdoors.
So I took the Campanion on my most recent wilderness survival course (I'm the 'obstructor') and tried it out. CONCLUSION: the bevel is too fat to efficiently/effectively shave feather sticks from pine/spruce/aspen & seemed too wedge-like for efficient club & knife chopping techniques which I favor.
SOLUTION: flatten/lengthen the bevel on my Delta 1" upright belt sander (400 or finer grit belts can be found) which can make a nice rolled edge, and finish on a couple water stones. I did the same thing ~12 years ago to my original MACHAX so the inner curve functions as a decent spoke-shave for bow/spear making, etc..
The Campanion now makes much better feather sticks, but if you really need to hack through sheet metal you could leave it as is.

That's my 2 cents, Dudley

[This message has been edited by DM Driscoll (edited 06-07-2000).]

bart · Jun 11, 2000

DM-

Sounds good - you notice in my I said I thinned my bevel. Same deal, but I did it with a diamond rod (whew!). I left it thicker than most knives, but a little thinner than it was. Have a good one

-Bart