A simple question for those that did well in chemistry class -

RokJok, I like that drawing and the concept. I will be primarily operating at ~1950 F.. What can the canister be made of??

Steve, you answered my question about turco. I was going to call K&G about its max. operating temperature. No need to call now.

Lynn, what is the melting point of the silica in sand??

Thanks. At the least we are looking at various forks in the road and eliminating some of them.

RL
 
Roger,
I have had good luck every time with the turco at 1870° on D2 and at lower temps for A2 and O1.

It really hurt losing the S30V blades to decarb.

I've never tried RWL34, but have done some Damasteel and had good results with just tearing off the foil and air quenching. I haven't seen a CCT diagram for RWL, but have seen them on a bunch of the other Uddeholm PM steels and they seem to all have plenty of time to miss the bainite and pearlite stability fields-on the order of 100+ seconds for most. I believe I have read that Uddeholm makes these steels for Damasteel.
 
Steve, thanks for that. It would certainly appear from your experience that turco will be a waste of my time since my work is generally at about 1950 F..

Have you seen the experimentaion I with help from Mete and Dan have been doing with RWL-34?? It is on the Damesteel thread.

I must admit that I have been timid about removing from foil not just because of missing the nose but also because of warping the blade by over handling. I am slow to change and stubborn but usually come around to what has to be done :confused:.

RL
 
Rodger, I kind of liked Steve's Idea. Why not just use a piece of 2" pipe with a cap threaded on one end and a slip fit cap on the other. Drill the loose cap and put a 4" 10/24 screw in it and use SS wire to secure the blade tang to the screw.

Sounds like it would be easy enough to set up!
 
Peter, all that sounds great to me - just like the drawing does. What can I make these items of?? We are talking 2000 degree soaks.

Roger
 
To be honest Rodger, I'm not sure what temperature Black iron pipe would burn. Remember, I stick it in the forge and watch for the fizzle:D If it is at or below 2000, SS pipe should be available as scrap near you. The wire is an easy one. Any music store will have piano wire. The screw, again can be SS from Lowes.

I guess that if Black pipe will not work, I'd call the largest machine shop near you and ask for a scrap of heavy SS pipe. They almost always give me the scraps I ask for. For the cap and bottom, just use a SS envelope.
 
monel may handle the heat over and over
but you'er talking big $$$
also if the heat warps it
you'll have a time removing the cap
I'm sure of that..
:(
 
--------------
Originally posted by rlinger
I will be primarily operating at ~1950 F.. What can the canister be made of??
--------------

Quick & dirty answer: Something with a melting point above 1950 F. ;) :D

More serious answer: I was originally thinking of iron pipe like sewer pipe maybe. Then you could simply get a cap (nipple) one or two sizes larger than the pipe to fabricate the oversize lid for the canister. For the bottom of the can, you could weld a plate or cap onto the end of the pipe. Not sure if iron would continue to be strong at 1950 F or not. Likewise don't know if welding joints remain viable at that temp. My apologies, but I'm no kind of metallurgist and am unfamiliar with the numbers for various metal characteristics. Rather I'm a fiddler on the computer with just enough science in my background to recognize how much I do NOT know.

The only forging I've seen had the billet welded onto a handle of what might have been soft steel and Raymond Richard writes of making blades from a type of rebar. So my thought is that you could make the handle for the canister (bright green in the attached diagram of canister in the furnace) out of rebar maybe and just weld it to the side of the canister at an angle that would allow you to:
1. Insert the can into the furnace without too much juggling it around.
2. Suspend the can in the furnace far enough to get it hot, yet a have a steep enough angle to "pool" the CO2 gas in the can and not have the gas flow out before the lid gets put on the can. I assume that putting the can into the burn chamber and putting the lid/knife combo onto the can will be two seperate operations.
3. Have the can's center of gravity (with the lid/knife on it) low enough that it won't roll around.
4. Place the handle out the furnace opening in a position that is easy to grab when its time to quench.
 
Dan, I don't know anything about monel. If its big bucks though we might as well go with the argon mod..

RokJok, I'll pursue it in thought for now and most likely put a small section of iron pipe to a 2000 F. test after the time&money-sucking holidays have had their way with us.

My oven is electric and I can not leave the door open or it will scream until the elements burn in two.

I'd still like to hear something more about sand at that temp..

RL
 
Roger
did we talk about salts in the ele ovens like ours?
I think Kevin's on to the best over all way
other than, I'm not sure what type of corrosion you get with it.
if any it can't be much??:confused:
 
Dan, for our ovens (yours and mine) don't even think of salt in it. Forget it, completely. Super corrosion.
 
Roger,
I have been following the RWL thread closely. I am impressed with your work on this.

As for the Turco, I know it works at 1870° and fails at 1980°-2000°.

The only time I've had trouble tearing foil off, was with some 1" X 0.110" thick S30V and had one blade out of five bend very slightly. (I now use it as an EDC) I do take care not to tear the foil in a direction that pulls the blade sideways. After bending that one, I had decided to try quench plates, but hadn't gotten around to locating the Al plates yet. I still have reservations about blade geometry and quench rates with the plates. I would really like to see CCT diagrams for these specialty stainless steels.
 
RL (rlinger)
>Lynn, what is the melting point of the
>silica in sand??

I'm not sure of the melting point. The reason I bring it up was that in a course at Campbell with Don Fogg and Chuck Patrick. They used the sand loose in the bottom of the forge to get an even temperature on the blades we were hardening.

I have been trying to find anyone else who has used that method because I have thought that the sand enclosed in a pipe would work. The reason I brought it up was that it would restrict air movement to allow use of the CO2.

Monitering the temperature of the open pipe seems very difficult

Hanging in there, Lynn
 
If you're going to use sand, make sure that it is quartz sand only. Most sand contains many minerals besides quartz that will undergo changes during heating, giving off gasses such as O2, Cl, F, CO, CO2, and H2O.

Any CO or CO2 in the grains (as in liomestone) heated above 400°C will be converted to graphite and O2.

Many of the silicate minerals in sand, such as feldspars, amphiboles and micas contain Cl, F and H20, that will start to be released from the crystal lattices as the temps go above 200°C. These may be minor in amounts, but could introduce wild cards into the mix.

If the sand is pure quartz, it will be stable at blade hardening temperatures
 
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