A Substitution for the BRK magnum fox river

Masterninjakiller said:
Ok, heres my next question. Apart from the obvious rust protection, what dos stainless steel give you as opposed to non stainless or vice versa?
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Here is another good read from Crucible's website, though it doesn't mention stainless steels specifically: http://www.crucibleservice.com/eselector/general/generalpart1.html

Stainless steels usually accomplish their corrosion resistance via chromium content, but chromium is a potent carbide former - i.e. it bonds with carbon in the steel to form hard particles - so the steel must contain sufficient chromium to leave some of it free in the matrix, 14-15% by most estimates. How much chromium is free depends on carbon content, other carbide-formers present, and also heat-treatment.

But of important consideration when comparing the properties of stainless vs non-stainless steels beyond that corrosion-resistance is the chromium carbide content. Chromium carbides are harder than ferric carbide (or ferrite, most often super-saturated with carbon to form martensite in knife steels) lending improved wear resistance. However, the most common form of chromium carbide in knife-steel is not its hardest form but a fairly large form. Large carbides do not bond as well to the steel matrix and also tend to form aggregates that can severely lower the impact toughness of the steel at high hardness, i.e. "brittle", and also increase the working apex-diameter of the steel preventing it from maintaing a very fine razor's edge. For this reason, stainless steel in "hard use" tools is left softer or geometry is thickened to improve structural support. HOWEVER, certain stainless steels feature very clean composition that, when properly HT'd, produce very small carbide grains (<1 micron), and manufacturing newer powder steels allows better distribution of the grains (to prevent aggregation) to maintain small size (<10 microns). These features improve impact toughness & wear resistance (e.g. compare CPM154 to 154CM), and allow for a longer-lasting razor's edge.

N690 vs O1? http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=BO1,N690&ni=152,521
My guess would be that O1 has higher attainable hardness or toughness but lower wear-resistance and corrosion resistance, and honestly the corrosion resistance is probably the most noticeable difference ... and the price.
 
Masterninjakiller said:
Thanks Mike for the comment,

To be brutally honest I am very unforgiving about bad reviews pertaining to any product or service. The simple fact is since I have started researching I have heard alot of negative things from many different sources about the quality of BRK. Bad QC and bad customer service being the main complaints, it is a shame because as i have said I appreciate the overall design of this companies knives and whether or not these negative claims are substantiated or even true is beside the point, the fact is they have been said.

People do not as a rule waste their time to start a whole forum dedicated to bashing one product or service without at least perceived due cause. and they definitely do not for the sake of one minor QC issue, the problem is usually a deal breaker.

If I were the owner of BRK I would go out of my way to make sure that there was physical proof on his end that every knife that left his factory floor was tested to be flawless and that if anyone did have a problem that at the end of dealing with said problem they would have nothing but good things to say, even if it involved taking a loss at the end of the day. Also I would make sure that no one had any cause to have an "axe to grind" with me

That is the last I have to say on the subject as I said before I am not here to slam anyone but if there wasn't a problem no one would have as many bad things to say as they do. And to the people who have had nothing but good experiences with BRK please do not take offence at this post as it is not meant to be taken as such.

Just an Impartial opinion based on what I have seen and heard.
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I know Mike Stewart personally. I know his product inside and out. If I had to pick up an "untested" (by me) factory knife right out of the box and hit the bush, a Bark River would be my #1 choice in a factory blade.

When reading Internet gripes, it is prudent to consider that many of them come from 50 year old children living in mom's basement who as often as not have had no actual hands on experience with the product in question.....

Bark River did not achieve it's current level of success by turning out an inferior product. If you choose to not believe that, then go buy something else and quit talkin' trash about a fine quality product.
 
Brommeland said:
...When reading Internet gripes, it is prudent to consider that many of them come from 50 year old children living in mom's basement who as often as not have had no actual hands on experience with the product in question.....

Bark River did not achieve it's current level of success by turning out an inferior product. If you choose to not believe that, then go buy something else and quit talkin' trash about a fine quality product.
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^This is the first post "talkin' trash" about anything, also the first to include a blatant attack on anyone not totally in love with MS or BRKT. Note that. And no one said that the knives weren't pretty or that MS hasn't been in the business for a long enough time to know the ropes. This thread is about OTHER knives, isn't it? The poster is indeed looking to "buy something else". Clear?
 
I don't care a bit whether the OP is "totally in love" with BRK products or not. Nor do I care if he chooses to buy something else. My point of contention are the comments like the following:

"I have been doing alot of research on this subject and i thought i had found the perfect knife in the BRK magnum fox river until i started doing research on the company and the Quality of its product.
In short I didnt like what i found. It was unfortunate because I fell in love with the profile of the magnum fox river but now don't have the faith in the company (or the money to gamble) to purchase one."

"It becomes evident very quickly on the Internet when someone or something is found wanting because so many people are weighing and measuring all the time. It takes me a very minimal amount of research to uncover any flaws in a given product or company. this goes for any product. I find that the ease of which I uncover bad reviews are directly proportional to the quality

Believe me when I say I enjoyed browsing BRKs website but only after too little prodding on youtube and this forum and a few other places on the web did I lose heart with BRK for reasons that are common knowledge on this forum so I wont bring them up again in this thread."

"To be brutally honest I am very unforgiving about bad reviews pertaining to any product or service. The simple fact is since I have started researching I have heard alot of negative things from many different sources about the quality of BRK. Bad QC and bad customer service being the main complaints, it is a shame because as i have said I appreciate the overall design of this companies knives and whether or not these negative claims are substantiated or even true is beside the point, the fact is they have been said."

Comments like these can do harm to a company's reputation - plain and simple. Repeating something that some total stranger said on the 'net over and over again multiplies this harm. Why would anyone feel compelled to hurt a total stranger's livelihood based upon what are admittedly unsubstantiated rumors? That's not only rude, it's immoral.

If the OP wants a different knife, there are bunches of top notch makers out these who can surely accommodate him - right up to and including making an exact copy of a Magnum Fox River if he so desires. I have no problem with that whatsoever. My problem lies in unsubstantiated character assassination attempts.

In closing, one of my favorite custom makers has not been mentioned - Bob Hankins. He's made a couple of knives for me that I like every bit as much as BRK's and his prices are quite reasonable. A drop point hunter (in D2) that he made for me about 9 or so years ago has proven itself to be the single best fixed blade knife I've ever owned. He also does a lot of various camp knives in 5160 (one of which I also own) that are also superb.
 
Brommeland said:
...based upon what are admittedly unsubstantiated rumors? That's not only rude, it's immoral...

... My problem lies in unsubstantiated character assassination attempts...
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NOT "unsubstantiated" rumors or otherwise. To assert that they are, and also talk "trash" about any who bring them up is "rude ... immoral."

I have seen some of Bob's work, liked it, though he also has been spanked for stealing designs from other makers... but yeah, LOTS to choose from :thumbup:
 
Masterninjakiller said:
To be brutally honest I am very unforgiving about bad reviews pertaining to any product or service. The simple fact is since I have started researching I have heard alot of negative things from many different sources about the quality of BRK. Bad QC and bad customer service being the main complaints, it is a shame because as i have said I appreciate the overall design of this companies knives and whether or not these negative claims are substantiated or even true is beside the point, the fact is they have been said.
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The above is a quote from the OP. Italics are mine.
 
One quick suggestion for you. Why not buy the FR Magnum and see for yourself? If it has QC issues, return to your place of purchase or to BRKT direct. If you just decide you don't like it, even though it passes all your requirements for quality, put it up here on the Exchange and it is unlikely you will lose much on the transaction as good knives hold their value. It would just be a shame to think you missed out on a knife that by your own admission you are strongly drawn to because of a few nay-sayers, many of whom have an axe to grind rather than presenting an objective point of view.
 
When it comes to the knives I trust, the only opinion that counts is mine.

I test each knife personally before it becomes a trusted field companion.

I don't let other folks tell me what to think, I seek my own truth.




Big Mike
 
Big Mike said:
When it comes to the knives I trust, the only opinion that counts is mine.

I test each knife personally before it becomes a trusted field companion.

I don't let other folks tell me what to think, I seek my own truth.




Big Mike
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Same here and I certainly intend to keep every Bark River knife I own!
I have seen edgefailures in some of them, but nothing a regular resetting of the edge couldn't fix.
My Golok had a major edgechip due to a too thin edge for a chopper, but Mike & Crew fixed it in 2008.
They payed the return shipping to Sweden. wich was USD 32$ and the Golok has been a good tool ever since.

I'm very fond of my BR's in stainless Sandvik 12c27.
BR's heat-treatment & geometrys are spot-on and it performs on a surprisingly high level for this steel.

The 8,5" Bowie in 12c27.

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I've had a lot of good use for this knife around the household, but also used it when fishing.
It works well as a cross-over do-it-all knife.
As such it's a fun knife to own and use.
I think that's what this hobby is all about, to enjoy the world of fine cutlery!


Regards
Mikael
 
Wow. That's beautiful. Thanks for showing that it can work too, I'd very likely be worried about damaging it.
I might have an unreasonable admiration for bowies like that. It's a reason I've liked BRKT so long, longtime fan of the EK.
 
MC Chan

Yes, BR do nice Bowies and this one has a story of its own.

When I placed the order for it at DLT, I ordered the #6 Sambar Carver.
When it arrived it was the #6 Sambar Crown.

Jason offered an exchange to the carver, but I knew he had Sheldons's book on Randall Knives.
So instead of sending back the knife I kept it and we agreed on, that Jason sent a copy of the Randall book for free!
I guess we both got satisfied with this solution.
Now I enjoy both the knife and the book!

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Regards
Mikael
 
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chiral.grolim said:
^This is the first post "talkin' trash" about anything, also the first to include a blatant attack on anyone not totally in love with MS or BRKT. Note that. And no one said that the knives weren't pretty or that MS hasn't been in the business for a long enough time to know the ropes. This thread is about OTHER knives, isn't it? The poster is indeed looking to "buy something else". Clear?
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Thanks chiral.

This post wasn't about how much i hated BRK it was about a substitution for BRK because I don't trust the company. It is not my fault that there is negative press about BRK on the net, I did not put it there, as i have said at least three times now i did not want this thread to be "slamming or bashing knife companies" and as you can read in the original post I said nothing harmful about bark river, I posted no links to my sources I did nothing but voice a personal opinion. Is this not allowed?
It seems to me that the people that actually like the company did more harm by exacerbating the issue and making it into something i did not want it to turn into. I recommend that the moderator on at the moment lock the thread to avoid yet another shouting match about BRK.

I have the info I wanted and thank you to all the impartial posters who gave me some good advice I appreciate it.
 
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If you like the magnum foxriver , get it and use the crap out of it.I don't baby my knives and haven't had on fail yet. I've been using BRK for over 7 years now.

Mag foxriver


Tac-ops8 made by barkriver (blackjack classics)
 
So I went with the custom SplinterL by MLL Knives.

101020132458.jpg


A beautiful knife.

01 steel
Poplar green lime handle
5.35" blade

Thanks Mario!
 
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Well that looks like a solid blade! The scandi grind should be tough enough for you as well.
 
Congrats to the new knife!
It looks very nice.
Don't forget to post a verdict, after some time of use!


Regards
Mikael
 
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