a tad, just a tad off topic.

[LSkylizard]

...Now, I do not want to discourage you but if you do not want to carry an M16, you should choose another manner to serve. The M16 is the basic rifle you WILL carry...

...M16 is the standard weapon, w/ variants like the M4 for those w/ need...not everyone who qualifies expert will get an m14 (qualifiying expert is not all that difficult) - I knew tons of infantry guys who were expert marksmen - all carried M16s. There may be a designated marksmen in some squads - they will typically carry a more accurate version of the M16 -this is due to logistics - it's easier to support one weapons platform (and ammo/magazines/etc... can be borrowed from your squadmates - not so w/ the M14)...

Exactly my point. I am glad someone has a similar understanding on this issue as I.

 

[LSkylizard]

...the man doesnt pick the job, the job picks the man. i do not have issues with killing a man in combat...

I do NOT intend to be insulting. Just a couple of points.

1. In the military, the man does choose the job (i.e. special ops). All high speed training such as SOTIC, jump school, air assault, HALO, etc... are all voluntary. In fact, basic training and military service is still voluntary as far as I can tell.

2. You will never be able to honestly say "i do not have issues with killing a man in combat" until you actually do it. I would be very concerned if you are already so "stone cold" before graduating from HS! Everyone has an issue. Your bravado simply suggests youth and inexperience.

3. I applaud your enthusiasm to serve. I would encourage you to tame down your bravado, quietly read and learn from different sources, continue home fitness training, give basic training a chance to educate, and active duty a chance to mature you. You need not decide your entire career here and now on this forum nor do you have to convince anyone here how good a shot you are.

I think it bears repeating given your "zeal":

...I have been told by all military instructors that a newbee/novice with little shooting experience is often more successful and easier to train to expert. They always stated that the newbee was a blank slate while the "experienced/pretrained" soldier always required unlearning...

LSkylizard

 

[Horned Toad]

flotsam, im already in training, i read the different army manuals for fun(i take them seriously though), and i work out 3 days a weeks atleast. ive already got a good step up on the average recruit, but im still working hard on it.
on the M14, i see your point, and ive done some reading. very unlikely id be given an M14. kinda disapointing, but it doesnt matter if its a .223 or a .308 if you hit the man in the right spot, which is the reason your designated as a marksman.
horned toad,
the man doesnt pick the job, the job picks the man. i do not have issues with killing a man in combat, i was merely trying to explain my wording. i believe that most of the targets being encountered by todays snipers are evil people anyway. how many iraqi insurgents can you think of that are good decent people? if you dont think i can do the job thats fine. i know i can, and i will do so and if i fail, i will simply move on. i will read through that site today
i have one more question for everyone, in the marksmanship qualification, what are the distance to the targets, how many shots will i have, and how many have to hit in order to qualify expert? reason being, im saving money for my own standard size AR-15, and id like to see what im gunna need to be able to do to qualify. like i said, i have little expiriance with the M16, and id like to get some pracice in with the weapon.

As LSkylizard pointed out, you are babbling from a complete lack of experience. On one hand I can commend your desire to serve your country, on the other, I know exactly what awaits you in basic and beyond with your know it all attitude. It will be beaten from you or you will not succeed. You have been given good advice several times and yet you ramble. Every day on my little corner of the Internet we get intros just like your rambling. Some young kid who knows everything and is going to do everything. Right now on our site the percentage of DEPs that actually fulfill their option 40 contract and make it to the Ranger Regt is running just under 20%. Now signing up for an infantry contract for the needs of the service, there is almost no way you can screw that up, short of getting kicked out. But you chances of doing all the high-speed things your talking about diminish.

I can say read more post less, better yet, where as I like knives, why are you asking about military and shooting on a knife forum. The Army has a site and forums; there are several others that are also good sources of info. Don’t waste time on shooting the military will teach you. Last PT, PT, PT if you think 3 days a week is good enough your wrong. How many push-ups can you do, sit up, what’s your 2 mile run time? Have you ever tried a 10-mile run? Have you ever put on a rucksack? What good is being an expert shot if by the time you get to where you need to be you cant focus because you are exhausted?

 

[LSkylizard]

...Killing people is "grown up" business, it's NOT for kids...

I think that just about covers it. Good luck. Finish basic and then figure out where you stand. You will not figure it out here or on any forum.

LSkylizard

 

[deserthawk]

funny this topic came up...
the other day i was talking to my wife about my ASVAB tests back in '77 (first year college. o.k. i'm old as dirt and twice as crusty ) and i don't remember my score, i remember the test administrator saying i had great scores/skillsfor equip mechanic. later talking to my friends, they were told the same thing. lol... they needed grease monkeys then.

so my wife told me she also took the test after high school. (after 14yrs married learn something new everyday, we should talk more...) and they said same thing to her, grease monkey, lol....

dhawk

 

[Flotsam]

Standard Army Qual (the last time I did it) was either a 25 meter scaled target (representing targets from 50 meters to 300 meters), or the pop-up range - targets from 50 meters to 300 meters. They pop-up for a finite amount of time (3-9 seconds, IIRC) and they are presented in random order. You have 40 rounds - 20 from prone unsupported and 20 from either prone supported or supported fighting position (foxhole). Marksman is 23-29, sharpshooter 30-35, expert 36-40. Qualifying expert gets harder once you leave basic - then it's 38-40/40. There's also nightfire, and NBC fire (firing while wearing gasmask).

Things may have changed, but that's what I recall.

I agree w/ the post about PT - you have to log some miles. Running at least 4-5/week, shooting for distances > 5miles at a time would be prudent.

I was definitely not a PT stud in basic, and did little better in AIT (ended up w/ 87 situps, 78 pushups (both in 2 minutes) & 14:15 2 mile run after coming off a 6 week no PT profile after breaking my foot the first day of school). That was about middle of the pack for my age group - some guys were getting less than 9 minutes for the 2 miles, and over 100 each on the pushups & situps.

My advice - start running, break in your shoes well, develop a good pace, and keep pushing the distance - it will all help your times.

 

[grant4353]

You should listen to Lizard and Horntoad. You've been raised on movies tv and violent video games. You're not even out of high school yet and you're deciding what you're going to do with you life. Don't do anything to rush yourself into anything, responsibilites and such will come with time. Enjoy life.

Also a comment on snipering in Iraq; in Fallujah snipers were essentially shooting anything that moves, civilians, children, women.
Soldiers were told that it was free shooting zone, families were found in their houses shot, some laying on their couches. And for what? A friend of mine was a marine in fallujah, he was seriously wounded over a year ago (almost died) and still has issues will always, he watched his best friend get killed.

It really just comes down to being government sanctioned murder. Iraq was not a threat to us, the US should never have gone in. Don't trust your own government.

This is definitely off topic.

 

[LSkylizard]

...It really just comes down to being government sanctioned murder...the US should never have gone in. Don't trust your own government...

I hope a Moderator will lock this thread before we travel down this path further...please

 

[elvenbladesmith07]

delete

 

[ohoisin]

took the asvab to join the marines, scored a 99 my recruiter loved it said it was the highest he had ever seen, wanted me to go in for ROTC, just about cried when he found out I had asthma dropped me like a hot potato.

 

[Horned Toad]

Ebs07 I was going to post this two days ago but my home internet was down


Speaking from experience I can say that you don’t have to have your whole life planned out by the end of high school. But you need to have some paths picked out. I was supposed to use my 4 years in the Army as time to figure out what I wanted to do in life and then go to school for the education to do it. Well 4 years goes by real fast when you’re busy and having fun, but I stuck to my plan and got out and attempted college. That didn’t go well; I think I did 2 semesters. I didn’t plan for college. I was lucky enough at 27 to find a career that pays well and is something I enjoy.

I think the military is a good thing both short term and for a career as long as you are informed and have several paths picked out.

As far as PT, if you have trouble running then you need to work at that, short legs are no excuse. I have seen plenty of shorter guys pull sub 12s on their two mile times no problem. I would work on running and calisthenics and go very light on weight training. As you get closer to graduation if you are still serious, I would see about getting whatever the current issue boots and rucksack are for parctice. Walking with a 50 pound ruck is not the same as a timed ruck march. 50 pounds is a good start though, staying at that range and working on speed will put you way ahead of the ball game for most recruits. If you can do 12 miles in 3 hours you will be good to go. Just remember they will add, weapon, k-pot, LBV, water, and easy 30 more pounds.

Good luck and read read read

 

[LSkylizard]

...I would see about getting whatever the current issue boots and rucksack are for parctice...

http://www4.army.mil/news/article.php?story=6042

 

[Horned Toad]

http://www4.army.mil/news/article.php?story=6042

My personal opinion on the new ACUs based on 15 year out of date knowledge. Can say the high speed types I have talked to hate the new ACUs and wont switch till the last minute, the few friend I have that are still RA, their troops love it. I have heard they are very comfortable out of the box, but that the first batch didn’t hold up well. The wife detachment said they wash easy and don’t stain. Like always with the Army, I think it started out a good project and went down hill from there.


1. Mandarin collar that can be worn up or down
some use
2. Rank insignia centered on the front of the blouse
does a lot of good with body armor and LBVs
3. Velcro for wearing unit patch, skill tabs and recognition devices
I really can’t understand this at all, creates a new opportunity for a whole new class of mall ninjas
4. Zippered front closure
zippers make a lot of noise and when they break they cant be sewed back on by the troops, hence buttons
5. Elbow pouch for internal elbow pad inserts
good idea, had this on my field uniforms in 92
6. Knee pouch for internal knee pad inserts
good idea, had this on my field uniforms in 92
7. Draw string leg cuff
no change
8. Tilted chest pockets with Velcro closure
already spoke on Velcro, not sure on slanted pockets, they had then before and then changed them to strait
9. Three-slot pen pocket on bottom of sleeve
don’t see the need, already had a place for a pen
10. Velcro sleeve cuff closure
don’t like velco
11. Shoulder pockets with Velcro
don’t like velco, other than that good idea had it in 92
12. Forward tilted cargo pockets
if it works
13. Integrated blouse bellows for increased upper body mobility
needed
14. Integrated Friend or Foe Identification Square on both left and right shoulder pocket flap.
needed, can remember when this was major opsec issue
15. Bellowed calf storage pocket on left and right leg
not sure on these
16. Moisture-wicking desert tan t-shirt
as long as it doesn’t melt when it gets hot
17. Patrol Cap with double thick bill and internal pocket
this is new?
18. Improved hot-weather desert boot or temperate-weather desert boot
if they are well made
19. Two-inch, black nylon web belt
okay
20. Moisture-wicking socks
see comments about melting

 

[elvenbladesmith07]

delete

 

[LSkylizard]

...the army's current boots are the ALTAMA desert boots right?...

See the website I posted above and web search for the NEW army ACU. That way you can ensure you buy the correct boots....do not waste time or money buying a rifle.