A ten inch Kumar Karda. Pix. What do you think about it?

Bill Martino

Bill Martino

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Mar 5, 1999
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This knife is in the air -- five of them.

Gelbu tells me the knife is 10 inches long and simply a scaled up version of the picture you see here which is the 7 inch Kumar karda. Probably a slight variation in handle size.

If I know Kumar this is going to be a very good knife. It is not a khukuri but we will offer it anyway.

This knife should come with scabbard and frog and I expect it to be excellently made. If it comes in as I think it will the price will be $75. Adjust up or down a little for surprises.

If interested now is the time to get signed on.

I'd appreciate any initial comments or suggestions. We will know a lot more after we see the real thing.

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Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ

[This message has been edited by Bill Martino (edited 26 November 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Bill Martino (edited 26 November 1999).]
 
Interesting...definately a nice visual companion to a Khukuri on belt. Reminds me somewhat of a Scandinavian Puuko; it's a basic small utility knife of obviously peaceful intent.

Come to think, the major weakness of this little puppy might be an advantage in California: it'll just plain suck for stabbing! What I mean is, the grip shape is tragically wrong for stabbing, it would be highly unsafe to even try. With California's rules, anything not a "readily accessable stabbing implement" is perfectly legal to conceal.

See also this thread on the ATKI forum: http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum30/HTML/000046.html

James Mattis found some actual case law saying that a blunt-tip bread knife can be legally concealed. This thing has a pointy tip in the *steel* but the grip is...well, WAY wrong for stabbing, and in CA that's what makes it a "fighter".

Iiiiinteresting. Because other than no stabbing, it's a lovely little knife. I oughta point James to this thread!

Jim
 
It is by now clear (and in the statute) that a knife without a handguard can still be a "dirk or dagger" in California, but in that knife the handle shape actually tapers toward the point, making it essential to cut on the pull stroke (using the point only to start the cut), and probably to keep your little finger behind the butt end to avoid slipping.

But it does have a point, and might even be as efficient a stabbing weapon as a Bic pen. If your discretely carried Karda comes to the attention of CA law enforcement under other than friendly circumstances, and the cop wants to make an issue of it, there is no court case that I know of that would make it a non-dagger. In order for your Karda to become a favorable precedent, you would have to be taken downtown, and you would have to go to trial, and you would have to lose at trial, and take it up on appeal, and win on appeal. Winning would not be a certainty, and the legal fees would be most disagreeable.

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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
Much thanks for the input.

If I sell the knife in California am I a dealer in illegal weapons?

PS: I forgot. This knife looks very similar to an old Chicago cutlery knife I have been using in the kitchen for maybe 30 years. Am I illegal with the kitchen knife?

PPS: As soon as the knives get here I will post pix and detailed specs -- even if they are illegal.

------------------
Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ

[This message has been edited by Bill Martino (edited 26 November 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Bill Martino (edited 26 November 1999).]
 
If the Kumar Karda(K2 for short) is as good as the 7.25 inch karda I received with my 25 inch MamaBura, I would have to do some serious thinking and consulting the Rules of Acquisition.

Harry

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"Khukuris are our obsession and we're late for therapy!"



[This message has been edited by Kozak (edited 26 November 1999).]
 
Bill, there's NO problems selling it in CA, that goes for *everything* else you've ever sold including the few double-edge pieces.

What's being discussed here is whether or not it would be legal to CONCEAL one of these on your person. Without question, openly carried there is no problem whatsoever, that goes for all the Khukuris and in theory, even the swords. In many places it would be technically legal to open-carry the swords and at certain "Medievel festivals" or other costume events it would be considered entirely normal. There are a few cities where street-carry of large blades is illegal without some obvious peaceful purpose going on at the same time but even then you can own anything but a cane sword at home.

The only thing the kamis could *possibly* make that couldn't be imported into Calif would be a "cane sword". That's where a sword in it's sheath is not immediately recognisable as such; no sword I've ever seen from Nepal fits that description nor any sword I've heard people discuss here. The moment the grip is obvious as such and/or it has a prominent guard, it's NOT a cane sword.

Cane swords are 100% blanket banned from ownership here, even in your own home.

As to it being concealable based on the "not a stabber" clause: James is almost certainly correct. Some fast and fancy talking about it being pathetic for stabbing *might* get you off if you *really* know the CA knife laws inside and out and can stay polite. I'm a bit more "radical" in such matters than James
smile.gif
but his words of caution are worth noting. The good news is, the piece is of such obvious "peaceful intent" that there'd be minimal "social problems" in packing it openly - which IS legal.

Jim
 
Jim and James,

Could the Maccha style khukuris that Bill occasionally carries be illegal sword canes in CA? They don't look like a knife when they're sheathed. They don't look like a cane either. They look like a fish. They could be hung on a wall and their identity as a knife would be concealed.

Honest officer, this is just an innocent fish tucked into my belt!
Click to expand...


Then, when you have found the shrubbery, you must cut down the mightiest
tree in the forest... Wiiiiiithh....

A HERRING!
Click to expand...
 
The Montypythonesque littany of Nasty Weapons in Section 12020 of the California Penal Code includes several disguised pointy things, but no generic prohibition against pointy things made to look like something else. You may not disguise your knife or dagger or sword as a cane, a writing pen, a lipstick case, a tire pressure guage, or a bludgeon, but there is nothing there prohibiting you from disguising it as a baby cart, a root vegetable, or a fish, though you might violate the "concealed carry" provision by going about in public with such a thing.

As for baby carts and root vegetables, we can only hope that nobody in the California Legislature rents a tape of Shogun Assassin.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
James, do I recall right in that the "list of horrors" in PC12020 was a result of paranoia in the late '60s over the Black Panthers?

Bill, you wouldn't *believe* that list. It goes on for 24 ever-more-medieval sections, including weaponry nobody I know has even heard of. It's funny and pathetic. Until reacently the "dirk or dagger" section was the most insane but they've actually cleaned it up a lot recently.

Now we're at a point where the knife carry rules are significantly more lax than are found in most of the 31 states where you can get a gun permit relatively easily. Yet gun carry permits in CA is just...totally screwed up.

Go figure.

Jim
 
Section 12020 lists a bunch of subversive firearms and firearms accessories, some classic "western" criminal weapons from a more innocent time (sword canes, billies, brass knuckles) that probably date back to at least the turn of the last century, and a bunch of "eastern" evil ninja stuff added in recent decades. And of course the concealed dirk or dagger that has made had authority figures nervous since before Brutus, et al., made a salad of Caesar. There's history in these sort of laws. The Paranoia of the Decade is added, and nothing is ever removed.

There is some prejudice against eastern "martial arts weapons," but so far little action against pre-gunpowder Weapons of War. Think about it. Swords are primarily designed to dismember people, and spears to skewer them. But a sword hung on the wall or worn to some reinactment event does not inspire the fear in the general public that a modest knife does.

Kukris are "eastern," and the sort of thing that might well make some legislator nervous. Let's never forget that a Kukri is a farm tool first.

Not that farm tools are exempt from legislation. I'm told unofficially that Ireland has outlawed machetes.


------------------
- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
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