A traditional, minimalist load-out for your Appalachian Trail thru-hike

Rockgolfer, I'm partly intrigued by ultra light stuff. But not entirely sold on it. Hiked for many years with a cute little Camillus serpentine jack and other years with just a Victorinox Classic. Hard to whittle with a razor blade!

I'm not sure I would call the AT a suburban park. It is in some places but honestly, I find maintained trails to be maintained trails unless you get a couple of days from a road.

Hard to whittle indeed :). My foray with razor blades and camping lasted one trip. Great item to have in your first aid or survival kit but not to my liking for solo carry. Now I would just carry a good slipjoint and if I feel like it a fixed will make it into the bag for fun.

Good point about the AT and trails in general and reminds me. I need to get days from a road, soon :thumbup:
 
This entire post raises questions from me. I appreciate this feedback greatly but if it requires zero skill what is the challenge of it? Or what is the big draw? I am asking this seriously, thinking there must be a good reason.

Also, it strikes me as odd that an entire site of people would pack up because of a fixed blade spotting. What is the reasoning? Was it the Kabar style, something insiders know, or just a fixed style knife???

Thanks for any elaboration.


Hey Guys I hiked the Appalachian trail in 1996 from end to end a complete through hike. It took me almost 6 months. I personally carried a Gerber folder and a Gerber multi tool needle nose style. All the hikers I hiked with also carried slip joints of some type and lots of hikers had the good old Swiss Army knife. The only people with fixed blades were looked at a little side ways. It's a close community and the hikers consider fixed blades and larger knifes to be a sign of some one not to be really trusted. A local hiker showed up at an AT camp site one evening and produced a large ka bar style knife to carve sticks, we all left and went to camp at another spot. All you need is a pocket knife of some type and you want a light one at that. You want to keep all your packed items as light as possible. My multi tool was a little on the large side but is was the most borrowed item in my pack. Its a wilderness style hiking experience it is not survival you don't need bush craft knives or skills trust me no one was cutting firewood or cleaning game on the trip. just opening MRE's and ramen noodles with a pocket knife.:)
 
This entire post raises questions from me. I appreciate this feedback greatly but if it requires zero skill what is the challenge of it? Or what is the big draw? I am asking this seriously, thinking there must be a good reason.

Also, it strikes me as odd that an entire site of people would pack up because of a fixed blade spotting. What is the reasoning? Was it the Kabar style, something insiders know, or just a fixed style knife???

Thanks for any elaboration.

To address your first question, why do it? Well, it used to be really good. I've covered a heck of a lot of the A.T. in Tennessee, North Carolina, Virginia, and Maryland. You used to be able to get away from it for days at a time. A friend and I took a month when we were 19, and just ambled along it from North Caroline back up towards Maryland. But after the 80's, it got weird. The popularity of back packing birthed a new exodus to the trail, and by the late 80's early 90's you couldn't find much trail that you wouldn't see people. And a goodly number of them were weird. The advance of back packing technology combined with larger disposable income for the yuppy bunch, and the back to nature movement, and the A.T. of Granny Gatewood's era vanished into the pages of history. They even have crime on the A.T. Many times you get to a shelter, and you find some local towny riff raft hanging out drinking booze or smoking some illegal substance, and eyeing you and your gear. Too much of the trail is close to roads, and local low life's know where you have to pass by.

As for why do it? I guess some people want to see if they can do the whole thing. Curiosity I guess. And you do get to see some pretty country from the high spots.

While you don't need any more knife than a small SAK or peanut, a nice air weight .38 snub would not be unwelcome.

Carl.
 
Carl,

This is much appreciated and I really enjoyed hearing your wisdom. Your hike years ago sounds awesome. Its sad my generation forward will not be able to experience that.

Thanks for taking the time,

Kevin


To address your first question, why do it? Well, it used to be really good. I've covered a heck of a lot of the A.T. in Tennessee, North Carolina, Virginia, and Maryland. You used to be able to get away from it for days at a time. A friend and I took a month when we were 19, and just ambled along it from North Caroline back up towards Maryland. But after the 80's, it got weird. The popularity of back packing birthed a new exodus to the trail, and by the late 80's early 90's you couldn't find much trail that you wouldn't see people. And a goodly number of them were weird. The advance of back packing technology combined with larger disposable income for the yuppy bunch, and the back to nature movement, and the A.T. of Granny Gatewood's era vanished into the pages of history. They even have crime on the A.T. Many times you get to a shelter, and you find some local towny riff raft hanging out drinking booze or smoking some illegal substance, and eyeing you and your gear. Too much of the trail is close to roads, and local low life's know where you have to pass by.

As for why do it? I guess some people want to see if they can do the whole thing. Curiosity I guess.

While you don't need any more knife than a small SAK or peanut, a nice air weight .38 snub would not be unwelcome.

Carl.
 
For me it is a slightly different question because my backpacking trips often include significant mileage off trail in areas that are seldom trod by others. I have had occasion to actually need a fixed blade to baton through some branches of a tree that had fallen and blocked access to a river crossing that was the only decent place to cross for some distance upstream or down, and I'm not comfortable using a folder for that. To that end, I have a light fixed blade that I had Ray Laconico make for me, 4" blade, weighs 4 oz. I also carry a slipjoint such as a Queen stockman for smaller chores, a SAK classic, and a Leatherman Squirt.
 
Research can often tread on your dreams Carl! :D

I knew a woman who was inspired to go travelling by her personal hero 'Boxcar Bertha' (see Sister of the Road - The Autobiography of Boxcar Bertha - A review can be found here http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/581255869 ). She was devestated when she found out that 'Boxcar Bertha's 'autobiography was in fact a work of fiction written by a man! :D
 
Minimalism with knives in an outdoor arena, is a foreign concept to me...I carry atleast 3 camp knives ,the largest must be capable of hammering in a 4 inch nail..I also carry two knives for field dressing and a skinner is at camp...I have spent four months straight in the hard bush at one time,over one winter,and all of my knives were used extensively..From digging trenches with my big Svord because of the flooding to intricate headskinning with my Old Timer...I could have managed with less but life certainly would have been harder methinx..In summary I say carry as much as you can... just my 0.2 FES
 
This entire post raises questions from me. I appreciate this feedback greatly but if it requires zero skill what is the challenge of it? Or what is the big draw? I am asking this seriously, thinking there must be a good reason.

Let me take a run at this Kevin.

I rode my bicycle across the country from Seattle to Boston in '86, so I understand something of the draw of a long distance challenge. As one guy put it, the panniers (saddle bags) don't accept excuses. Can you ride across a continent? Walk from Georgia to Maine? Once a question like that takes root in your head... well... It can become something of a quest.

My bike tour definitely affected me and the course of my life. I internalized the patience needed for long sustained efforts in a very, very deep way. Yes, you *can* cross a continent on your own. Just not today. My cousin did the AT in the 90s and it had a similar deep spiritual affect on her life. So much so she wrote a book about it. The trip can be life changing.

Being an aging yuppie, I'll push back a little bit on Carl's yuppie comment. Suggest reading Guy and Laura Waterman's "Forest and Crag" on the development of hiking in the New Hampshire region, including the rise of the Appalachian Mountain Club. "Yuppies" from the Boston and NYC areas have always played a big role in the development of outdoor recreation in New England and the Adirondacks going back to the turn of the century. Heck, Ethan Crawford's Hotel in the 1800s was geared towards tourist from Boston coming up by train. Crawford cut the first hiking path up to the summit of Mt. Washington. I think the history of land preservation and recreational hiking in California was similar. Not defending Volvo driving smugness here. Just noting that "yuppies" have been a part of the scene since the get go.

Regarding the issue of deep wilderness vs suburban hiking, I did a fair bit of hiking in California both in the Big Sur/Ventana Wilderness area and the Sierra (Yosemite, Whitney). IME, hiking in the east and in California aren't dissimilar. Within a 1/2 day of a trail head, you might on rare occasions encounter problem makers such as kids looking to party or homeless (in Big Sur) or worse. A day's hike in, you really see no problems. And you see a lot of really stunning places. Having hiked numerous parts of the AT through Mass, VT and NH (and a lot more trail hiking not on the AT per se), just because your within a day's walk of a road, doesn't mean it isn't beautiful, or wild or deadly. You can die of exposure in the White Mountains of New Hampshire while watching the lights of Gorham and do it just as easy as twisting an ankle.

You can "see" the town of Gorham, NH and Rt 2 from this spot. Lots of people have had to be rescued from near here and several have died near here. This is just off of the AT and if you squint, you can see the AT going over the crest of that last mountain (Madison). IMO, it's worth hiking here.

Krumholtz by Pinnah, on Flickr


Regarding the issue of skill... It takes tremendous skill to travel safely with modern backpacking equipment and an insane amount of skill to tackle a long distance trip like the AT. The skill set is different than the skills needed to hunt or to do primitive living in the bush but it's just as refined of a skill set. Living out of your pack (or saddle bags) for months at a time is just different. Not everybody has the chance to build up to it. Not impossible or secret knowledge but it's still skill.

Also, it strikes me as odd that an entire site of people would pack up because of a fixed blade spotting. What is the reasoning? Was it the Kabar style, something insiders know, or just a fixed style knife???

What is this?


H 15 drop point 2 by Pinnah, on Flickr

Well, ok, it's a modified Schrade H-15 but there's a deeper answer to this.

Unlike nearly all my backpacking buddies, I hunt. I hunt with my cousins up in northern Vermont. I've taken one of cousins backpacking and watched him struggle a bit with life on the trail. Took a hiking bud hunting and watched his mind get blown moving through the woods, off trail with guns and big knives.

I've concluded that we (in the US) have several different outdoor sub-cultures. I think there's the hunting crowd (of which I count myself one). The tactical/survivalist crowd (I'm not in that camp). And there's the backpacking/mountain climbing crowd.

These cultures develop certain insider rituals and rules, different markers of who is in the club and not in the club. If I mentioned a "necker" up at hunting camp, they wouldn't know what I was talking about! They would also wrinkle their nose at the standard issue SAK favored by many backpackers. On the other hand, most of the folks at hunting camp have a big fixed blade hanging off their belt and it's nothing to be in a small village store getting coffee to see hunters wearing them in town. That's a cultural thing. A big knife is accepted.

In all my years backpacking on both coasts, I've only rarely seen a fixed blade knife being worn. Culturally speaking, it's as jarring to see a fixed blade on the trail as it would be to see one at a Little League game or at your local shopping mall.

And if that knife is presented as a "tactical" knife.... well... There's just no getting around this... A knife is a weapon and to display a weapon in public in a setting where they normally don't get carried... that's just going to create problems.

I carry that H-15 on winter ski trips and on trips with the kids in which I think a camp fire might be feasible (harvest wood near many hiking locations just isn't sustainable) but I carry it in my pack. It comes out in camp or only when needed.

EDITED TO ADD:

One of the distinct sub-cultures is the thru-hiker. As a group, they are really their own animal. We see them in waves in late summer. Some are friendly. Most stink. Many are deep "in the zone" suffering a bit from calorie debt and nursing bum ankles and knees in hard terrain with more hard terrain ahead of them. I watched one guy pissing across the Maine/NH border in the Mahousics. That's how he celebrated his last border crossing.

One bit of thru-hiker culture that is great is summed up in the acronym you see in AT shelter logs.

HYOH

Hike your own hike.

People should carry what ever they want to make them happy. That's a good thing to take to all aspects of life.
 
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Good post Pinnah and I agree with you about different cultures within the outdoors community.

I'm a hunter through and through from childhood. It was part of the culture I grew up in. A big part of it. As an adult I have retained that part of myself through many changes in scenery. One of the things I took up as an adult was trail running which I absolutely love. It exposed me to a whole different set of folks that enjoyed the outdoors. Rock climbers, mountain bikers, backpackers, you name it. Not many hunters but some were within different sets of these. I do a bit of dayhiking and kind of cross my big game hunting with it but at heart am still a hunter. These folks warmly accepted me and I enjoy my time with them.

TBH, as you stated, bringing a weapon into the settings I shared with them would have been looked at askance. And the way they are carried does not go unnoticed if you know what I mean. The guys I hunt with have done it since they were old enough to hold a rifle. Their gear just seems to be there without being noticeable. I have been around the survival crowd and their knives and gear seem to stick out all over if you know what I mean. I can't describe it any better than that but it is there and it is real and it will make folks avoid you.

I've been around guns and knives and whatnot since childhood and even I don't like being around folks who cannot be away from their weapons without getting squirrely. But as Carl wrote about years ago folks seem to accept the small unobtrusive traditional much easier than any tactical or big fixed blade. I know some like to call them sheeple but I don't. You'd find the same reception if you carried a blackjack or baseball bat around with you everywhere.

Traditionals are tools. Folks seem to sense this and accept them much better.

Will
 
I've concluded that we (in the US) have several different outdoor sub-cultures. I think there's the hunting crowd (of which I count myself one). The tactical/survivalist crowd (I'm not in that camp). And there's the backpacking/mountain climbing crowd.

These cultures develop certain insider rituals and rules, different markers of who is in the club and not in the club. If I mentioned a "necker" up at hunting camp, they wouldn't know what I was talking about! They would also wrinkle their nose at the standard issue SAK favored by many backpackers. On the other hand, most of the folks at hunting camp have a big fixed blade hanging off their belt and it's nothing to be in a small village store getting coffee to see hunters wearing them in town. That's a cultural thing. A big knife is accepted.

In all my years backpacking on both coasts, I've only rarely seen a fixed blade knife being worn. Culturally speaking, it's as jarring to see a fixed blade on the trail as it would be to see one at a Little League game or at your local shopping mall.

And if that knife is presented as a "tactical" knife.... well... There's just no getting around this... A knife is a weapon and to display a weapon in public in a setting where they normally don't get carried... that's just going to create problems.

Thanks for your post. I agree with you about the different outdoor sub-cultures. I'm with Kevin though, I still can't (won't?) understand those who wrinkle their nose at fixed blade carry. Knives and the outdoors go hand in hand. Some might be comfortable with just a Victorinox Classic, though I can understand those who want something more robust.

Besides I think those who make a big deal because fixed blades are "weapons" are a bit myopic and unimaginative. The outdoors abounds with the earliest weapons (i.e., sticks and stones). Not to mention all the handy cordage around, useful for making garrotes.

- Christian
 
I've been around guns and knives and whatnot since childhood and even I don't like being around folks who cannot be away from their weapons without getting squirrely. But as Carl wrote about years ago folks seem to accept the small unobtrusive traditional much easier than any tactical or big fixed blade. I know some like to call them sheeple but I don't. You'd find the same reception if you carried a blackjack or baseball bat around with you everywhere.

Traditionals are tools. Folks seem to sense this and accept them much better.

Yes, yes. This is where I am too. Ditto on traditional folders. I think most non-knife people get nervous about fixed blades, traditional or not. That's why my traditional H-15 rides in the pack.

I'm with Kevin though, I still can't (won't?) understand those who wrinkle their nose at fixed blade carry. Knives and the outdoors go hand in hand. Some might be comfortable with just a Victorinox Classic, though I can understand those who want something more robust.

Besides I think those who make a big deal because fixed blades are "weapons" are a bit myopic and unimaginative. The outdoors abounds with the earliest weapons (i.e., sticks and stones). Not to mention all the handy cordage around, useful for making garrotes.

I think a large amount of this is about context. Another part of it is about actual design.

In terms of context, a 12" flat screw driver in my tool box, it's a tool. In my back pocket in an alley in Boston at 2 a.m. and it becomes a "burglary implement".

Here's another traditional knife from one of our sponsors...
BU119.jpg


At deer camp, it's a tool. On my belt at a hiker's lean-to on the AT, where, just to make the point very clear it is not needed in any way shape or form for 3 season weather with modern hiking equipment, it becomes a weapon.

In terms of design, it's good to remember that some traditional designs were designed first and foremost as weapons. The Bowie knife is a weapon, not a hunting tool and not a woodcraft tool but a weapon. And bowie-style hunting knives were designed and carried as dual purpose tools and weapons. IMO, there's good reason why most people find the Buck 119 or Ka-Bars frightening. They're smart enough to recognize a weapon when they see one. There's a good reason why the Buck 119 features so prominently in slasher movies. Same reason.

This isn't limited to fixed blades. The Buck 110 was the favorite knife of biker gangs for many years. Still see it on bikers occasionally. It's not there because they're likely to field dress a buck with their Buck! Tactical folders are designed to be more effective fighting weapons. Non-knife people understand that.

All this to say, I don't think we can have it both ways. We can't design and buy knives that have fighting and self-defense as a part of the goal and expect that people won't react badly when they see them.

It's one reason why I carry a drop point Opinel. It's a folding kitchen knife and the only person it has scared is my sister-in-law who, frankly, lives scared, so that doesn't count. :D
 
I hope this isn't too far off topic, I can identify with Pinnah's trip, I've done solo camping, throughout the northeast/NewEngland and countless other places, with only a Vic SAK. After my best pal died in the early 90's I did a solo cross country trip, one, because my pal and I had talked about doing it, so it was my tribute to him, two, I needed to get away, I was growing restless, and three, for closer, adventure, and prove/challenge myself. I had my pack which had minimal provisions, a jar of peanut butter, pita bread ( flat, packs well) a can of brown bread, 16oz plastic flask for H2O, ( other food would be picked up/ supplemented along the way, but the items in my pack were my staples ) the cloths I was wearing, a pair of shorts, change of pants, maybe 3-T-shirts, one button down shirt, lots of socks, no rain gear, no tent, no sleeping bag, instead, I had a travel sheet which is sheet made into a rectangle with one end open, kind of like a giant pillow case , a fleece blanket and a ridge rest, and a Coghlans tube tent ( plastic triangle tube sheet for rainy nights/wet ground), toothbrush & paste, razor, no cream, and campsuds for hygiene. Bic lighter, and for a flashlight one of those pinch squeeze things I don't know if they even make anymore. I was gone for 3 months, and had split time in the wilderness impromptu hikes/camping off roads, also parks( ie. Grand Canyon, Arches), and small towns & cities, means of travel was by foot, hitchhiking, and a few bus trips. I had one knife with me, I had posted once before that it was my old red Vic farmer, but I think I had lost it by that time, so I'm sure it was a Vic Rucksack, the long blade was good for the peanut butter jar, the saw came in very handy when making simple lean to shelters, can opener for brown bread can, awl, and screwdriver also came in handy. Sometimes I would stay with people and making oneself handy either by fixing something, cooking something or straightening out something goes a long way. Pinnah is correct in that there are trips that change, impact your life forever, you learn a lot about yourself & others, met some generous and strange people along the way, but my Vic met all my needs, never felt like I was at a disadvantage, it also served me well on many other adventures, if it were today I would probably take a Opinel #9 also. I think it comes down to what your needs are and how resourceful you are, only you as a individual can determine that, I've seen people with all sorts of gadgets and techie gear car camping that probably couldn't survive a day in the backwoods with a generator, a kid I worked with knew I liked to fish, he would always try to impress me with how many hundreds of dollars he spent on his reel & rod, I maybe spend $25 bucks on a rod/reel every 10 years or so. People have different needs/wants and skill sets.
I kind of drifted and went off on a tangent, hope this made some sort if sense ( I've been painting with oil paint I think the fumes have gotten to me :-)

Pete
 
I get your point. It's just that the term "fixed blade" is very broad and inclusive. To think about people freaking out about their carry, regardless of design, it rankles me somehow.

I'll concede that some fixed blades were designed as weapons. They don't bother me, though I acknowledge they do for a lot of people. What about this?

dsc1788o.jpg


Would it bother those on the AT? I have a hard time wrapping my head around that. This puukko is often on my belt during day hikes in regional and state parks, but it hardly elicits any looks from fellow nature lovers. Maybe it's my demeanor, maybe it's the design, maybe it's not all that notable because of its brown color and dangler sheath. Whatever the reason it hasn't caused me any trouble.

This thread has been very illuminating. I've learned a lot, even if I haven't always liked what I learned.

- Christian
 
Christian,

My sense that knife wouldn't generate a second look if it were carried in a pack and if it appeared at meal time or whenever there was some other need for it. Carried on the belt, I would think it would generate looks.

I suspect there is an east/west thing going on here too. I only lived in California for a couple of years but noticed that cowboy culture was fairly well present. Nothing to see cowboy boots, tooled belts or even cowboy hats. Occasionally when car camping I would see somebody with a brown tooled leather knife sheath on their belt and it always surprised my eastern eyes. I just never, ever see that out here in New England other than in rural places during hunting season and even that, only when seen in the context of red plaid, rubber boots and other visual clues that the person is a hunter.

Pete, I gave all the guys in my wedding party Victorinox Rucksacks. Wish I had kept one for myself, actually. Roger the peanut butter jar test.
 
Personally it sounds to me just like when I walk my woods. I always carry a machete. I can tell when I cross someone local and when I cross a city slicker trying to hike on the actual few trails. I am going to have to go out on this one and say its all in each person's perception. I see a machete and I think TOOL. Do I carry my machete into 711? NO. Is it in the back of my truck? YES.

I would NEVER think poorly of a fellow carrying a fixed blade unless, like Christian mentioned, their demeanor was obviously off (and I do believe Carl's advice of weirdo's and bad people on the AT). I appreciated hearing both sides of this because these thoughts are foreign to the way I was raised.

To Christian, if I saw you carrying that knife on your hip I would just think you have great taste and take care of your tools. Even if I did see you carrying it in a 711 I would just figure you were out in the woods and had yet to take it of your belt. Or you were heading out. I can tell the AT is not for me if this is how it is. I enjoy my freedoms and actually LOVE solitude in nature. Even though I may use my machete a ton one trip and then NONE another, I always take it hiking. It has been too helpful on occasions.

Now as for endurance hiking I could learn a lot from you guys on how to make it. Pinnah, your cycling sounds like a great challenge and I am actually an avid cyclist, just with a 29" hardtail mountain bike. Rocks, mud, dirt, grass, rivers and gravel for me :)

Most of my outings last year were 12 hour or more rides. I do believe I could make a huge endurance trip and also think that idea of pushing and conditioning your body is great.

When I think of the kind of hiking camping I would be interested in I think of FES or my brother. I wish I could say I have done it myself regularly or for any duration but I have not. Weeks of eating only what you kill or gather, fires made with what you can find, that's the kind of stuff that really interests me.

Just pondering nonsense from me :)

Kevin
 
here's mine.





minus water, food, a folding saw and a 1st aid kit

I love this! This is what I imagine Grandpa Gatewood would carry. Heck, I would carry this but I'm not sure what some of it is. :)

EDIT: This thread has been a really interesting read.
 
I'd carry my peanut, an Opinel 8, and a wee little pair of vice grips. Oh, and a fixed blade of some sort, like a Mora, or a Nessmuk, or a nontraditional Becker BK14, or a Little Finn...
The peanut would handle general chores, the Opi would be for food, and the fixed blade would be for "oh holy crap" moments. If I was restricted to only 2 knives I would ditch the fixed blade and bring a strong, lightweight peasant's type knife like an Opinel or a Svord Peasant.
 
The idea of minimalism appeals, to a certain extent....But the idea of an outing or prolonged hike excites the knife addict in me! Childish glee in contemplating which knives would be both practical and a pleasure to carry.

I got it down to three.. Puukko is a must and it could serve for all the tasks you need in a knife:food,woodcraft,hunting/fishing. (Woodcraft,hunting) But, I want to take three so, A locking knife in stainless or D2 Opinel or American made lockback/linerlock, (Food prep) 3 blade Medium Stockman in stainless OR a Vic Alox Farmer. (general tasks/tools) None of these knives actually weigh too much, you get to carry carbon,stainless,D2 Wood handles, bone or alox. Should satisfy the knife junkie in most of us. Have to take along my pocket diamond rod for quick touch ups, doesn't weigh much either.

As for the debate about the validity of such&such a hike, it's very interesting what has been said in this thread. But my attitude to any trip outdoors even a walk in the park, is that it is the call of the wild that motivates you, the beauty of the outdoors,nature,landscape. Doesn't matter if it takes you six months or sixty minutes, it's the doing it that counts In a European context, my dream hike would be in Carpathia with its mountains,woods and valleys, one of the last authentic wildernesses left in our old, crowded continent.
 
The AT is in my back yard here on the Tennessee and Virginia line. Its not that secluded. There's lil towns and communities on near the trail so u could buy whatever u needed there. A SAK or small fixed blade should do. There is not mountain lions here. Now the bear and rattlesnake population is a different. Bears are everywhere seen about a 350 lb boar bear a few days ago. The trail in shady valley, TN to Damascus, VA goes right through a bear reserve. A wet spring has got the timber rattlers really active. I'd be more concerned with bear spray and a snake bite kit then a bunch of knives. But if it was me; I'd take a full size trapper or sodbuster.
 
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