A Vintage Hawkbill Pocket Knife With Weak Snap - Repairable?

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SolWarrior

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I recently made a not very expensive e-purchase -- based on most knife enthusiasts on here -- of an L. F. & C. Universal Hawkbill manufactured between 1912 & 1950 (best guess - 1930s) is what the listing described. It also said "Excellent snap" in the description. When it arrived I immediately go through my routine of cleaning and inspecting the knives I purchase. Upon retrieving the blade back into the knife I noticed that it was stiff and slow to snap back. It has very little to no snap when slowly pushing the blade back into the knife.

Sometimes the blade stops and stays open ever so slightly towards the end and must be manually pushed into the knife. My guess is that there were some repairs done to it to fix any looseness or play in the blade as it is stiff to open and close. (((May very well be the reason why it lacks the snap when retrieving the blade into the knife.))) The knife has a snap at full extension only. It is a beauty, well kept with ebony wood and a strong sturdy blade and no wobble whatsoever.

My questions are as follows: Is it repairable? And if it is, is it an easy fix or must it be repaired at a knife shop? If it's an easy fix your advice on how to could very well rescue this knife from being returned. Something I rather avoid if at all possible. I would appreciated any suggestions. Thanks
 
I would post this question in the Traditionals Forum lots of knowledge about slip joint knives over there, also Maintenance and Tinkering forum.
 
If you haven't already gave the knife a good flushing with warm soapy water or WD-40 and oiled the pivot area, give it a try.
 
Look for excessive wear or rounding on the bottom of the blade's tang. It may not be depressing the backspring enough in transit to snap back into place. Those issues are difficult to fix without a new blade or thicker (new) backspring, but flatblackcapo's suggestion is pretty much always among the first steps to fixing weak snap (in either direction) on a slippy.
 
Billym, I'm kind of a rookie at threads. Can I move a whole thread over to Traditionals or do I start the same way...from the beginning and leave this one here?

flatblackcapo, I tried the warm soapy water and tooth brush then towel dried and blow dried it to remove all moisture. No improvement. I then flushed it out with the WD40 and there was the slightest improvement when closing. The blade got stuck at ever level but slipped shut at about 15 degrees. But when opening it, it stays stuck at every level including at the lowest point, the slightest crack of light between the blade and knife body.

TsarBomba, That's my biggest concern - excessive wear at the pivot base of the blade. The spring appears to be strong however, I looked at it with a magnifying glass while opening and closing and the spring's movement is very slight. I left the blade at 45 degrees and the spring popped out but very slightly, not even 1/64th of an inch. I have another old -- but not as old -- hawkbill with a strong snap and that spring opens to 3/64ths. I believe this LF&C Hawkbill is irreparable if I want to keep it original....but I'm staying open for more great advice.
 
Not sure what a cam tang is but it has a stop at the usual 90 degrees with no lock. It's an oldie. Not sure if folders with locks were invented yet.
 
Try oiling it, then open/close a number of times, repeat, clean out oil with tissue and let it sit. Sometimes it takes some movement and time.
 
Brownshoe, I tried that and saw no improvement. The WD40 helped some but not much. The blade got stuck at ever level when closing but slipped shut at about 15 degrees. Still gets stuck at every level when opening barely see light between blade and knife body. Sits there until I manually push it close. Based on what I described above to TsarBomba I believe it's irreparable as the pivot base of the blade is worn down and the spring hardly moved with the blade sitting at 45 degrees. At that point the spring should be extending at its most outward position and so is beyond repair if kept original. Aside from replacing the blade entirely (which I don't want to do) I don't see this knife as anymore fixable than what the WD40 has done. Thanks
 
SolWarrior said:
Brownshoe, I tried that and saw no improvement. The WD40 helped some but not much. The blade got stuck at ever level when closing but slipped shut at about 15 degrees. Still gets stuck at every level when opening barely see light between blade and knife body. Sits there until I manually push it close. Based on what I described above to TsarBomba I believe it's irreparable as the pivot base of the blade is worn down and the spring hardly moved with the blade sitting at 45 degrees. At that point the spring should be extending at its most outward position and so is beyond repair if kept original. Aside from replacing the blade entirely (which I don't want to do) I don't see this knife as anymore fixable than what the WD40 has done. Thanks
Click to expand...

I think you're right.
 
Try flushing it with lighter fluid

you know what wait till a more expireanced person says if that's a good idea I do it to mine but again most are aluminum handles
 
Learn to live with it. Snap is one of those things, that once it's bad, stays bad. It's not a cheap and easy repair either.
 
I had a knife like that. Oil it open close often. If you're sitting bored oil it then open close. Little drop of oil before going to sleep. Worked well with my 70s knife but took a few days.


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WD-40 has limited lubrication properties. Sometimes a more viscous oil seems to work better.
 
I flushed it out with warm soap water and used a tooth brush to get into the base of the blade, the areas that make contact with the spring. towel and blow dried it to make sure all moisture was removed immediately after. Then I flushed it with the WD40. This is the only thing that helped some.

It came well oiled. I used the WD40 to flush it clean only. I lubricated it with 3 in 1 oil. The only thing I haven't done that was suggested on here is the lighter fluid flush.

It seems to be doing a little better today. Maybe sitting overnight with the WD40 helped a bit more. I can hear a snap when it closes now, didn't before. However, it still stops at near 15 degrees and needs a little shove to close.
 
The WD-40 will displace water among the best of 'em, but as a long-term lubricant it's not really ideal. I normally use WD-40, Rem Oil, etc. in the "flush and clean" phase of care. If you can feel the grit in the pivot, WD-40 may work well. It also works well in kicking the water out of the joint when you do a soap and water flush, as you know. I always keep a jug of WD-40 on hand as well as a smaller aerosol can for in-tight applications.

I personally use Liquid Bearings for old, tight/sticky knives (except those I know will have food duty; they get mineral oil).

Have you checked the clearance of the top of the tang? Sometimes the liners on folders get ever so slightly pinched inward and the top of the tang starts rubbing or scraping against one or both liners. If you can't straighten the liners out, you can maybe file down the parts of the tang that are rubbing for the last few degrees of travel into the frame. It might be useful to take a thin sheet of paper and check your clearances at each point along the blade length, see if you've got any contact.
 
TsarBomba, That's some great advice. I haven't done the clearance check but will. I don't want to do anything that may risk the integrity of the knife as it may go back for a full refund. I'm waiting on a response from the seller. In the mean time, I will do what I can from the things you mentioned that are not risky. If I knew for sure that's it's not going back I'd go ahead and take my chances as I feel I can do all those things without damaging the knife.

Just an FYI - I saw a youtube video that tested some knife blanks and pretty much proved that mineral oil is about as good as putting nothing on a knife to prevent rust on 1095 steel. If you want to check it out just go there and type in "rust test on knife blanks" and you will see several blanks, all cut from the same piece of 1095 steel just be as fair as possible. The guy used several well known corrosion preventive oils, waxes and coatings and one with nothing at all and left them outside for a few or several days. You'd be surprised with the results. It was interesting to watch. Thanks for the advice, buddy!
 
I did the paper test and it has no clearance. I tried that same thing on another hawkbill with an excellent snap and it has some slight clearance but some slight wobble too. It's like I have to live with one or the other if. :confused: as the spring pops out ever so slightly too. Not even 1/64th so, it may be that the pivot base of the blade is worn down hence little to no snap and irreparable if I want to keep it original. The other hawkbill's spring pops out about 3/64th both with the blade at 45 degrees - the highest point possible on the blade's pivot base. As I mentioned at the top of this thread - I believe that they may have done some tapping on those sides to stop any wobble but that is just a judgement call with no proof. And if I do anything to create clearance the wobble may come back. Right now it's a s stern as can be. No wobble whatsoever.
 
It's surely a fine line, isn't it? So often either the blade slides around like a newborn fawn on rollerskates or it's so tight you need a vise and a team of sled dogs to get it open. It could be a combination of factors, most of which would require work to fix that would surely eliminate any sort of buyer protections you might currently enjoy. I'm glad to hear that you still have the option to return; I'm of the same mind as you that if I am sold a knife with "good snap" and I receive one that comes to a dead stop a third of the way in one direction or the other I start to wonder just where the knife I bought has gone. If someone says "this knife snaps like a gator" then I expect that gator to chomp on both open and close. I won't bat an eyelash if I think some simple TLC and a little lubrication will do the trick, but when it comes down to material removal or other drastic "fixes" then I'd just as soon pass on the knife (or send it back if I hadn't had the chance to inspect up front).

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. If anything, this thread has made me thankful that the Queen hawkbill I recently bought online matched the description well enough for me to be happy with the purchase. I hope you can find your snappy hawk soon, too. :thumbup:
 
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