A word or two on sharpened crowbars

Hey there...

MDP,
Great thought. Yes, they are wonderful. The Japanese method of handle wrapping is the influence of the Strider wrap. The obvious difference being that we use tubular cord instead of flat. Grip adhesion is awesome with these wraps. Born of war. As a comparison, it would function exceptionally well. Slightly less well, believe it or not, if resin impregnated.


rockspyder,
MDP has in fact handled a Strider WB. He was less than impressed if I remember. Which to be honest, I like. I value opinion. If someone has a complaint, I love to hear about it. It inspires evolution of our product. Our stuff isn't for everyone. I'm perfectly fine with that.

Thanks for the great posts

MS

Post Script:
nyeti
" I wonder if the 300 Spartan Hoplites facing almost 3,000,000 Persians at the battle of Thermopyle sat around their campfire discussing ergonomics and grind lines, or if their knives were vogue. I'll bet they just kept sharpening their TOOLs of war and discussed honor instead."

I have this throbbing sensation...
 
i had a strider knife, once upon a time last year.
the cord wrap was very comfortable. it was very secure too.

what is everyone complaining about the handles for. they feel fine and are very secure.

and for teh record, if i ever was going to be somewhere where i know that i would be using a blade HARD, i'm calling strider and grabbing my credit card.

the WP i had could have been locked in a vice and shot a 20 feet with a 12 guage slug. it would probably FU-K the cord wrap up and the knife would be blown into the air, but it would be in one piece.

when you want a hard use knife, it is dificult to beat 1/4 inch stock of ats 34 in your hand.
exept if it is BG-42.

they may not be pretty. (Sorry guys, but JSP takes that one, not that JSP is not dam good too) But the knives ARE TOUGH!!
 
well first of all sir..its whether...not weather....and my knives are prettier than yours.......so there
smile.gif


[This message has been edited by tom mayo (edited 09-29-2000).]
 
Nyeti :

putting a WB in a master lock and twisting it until the lock broke)
Click to expand...

Do you mean you actually broke the lock bar or tore up the mechanism in the keyhole?

Marion :

Have you ever had an oppurtunity to handle a Japanese influenced, resin impregnated handle?
Click to expand...

No, however I have heard them spoke highly of.

is there a way to combine, rock solid combat grip with ergonomics?
Click to expand...

The more "locking" a handle is because of shape the less aggressive the texture needs to be in order for the security to achieve a certain level. Of course shape security is very grip specific, surface texture security is not. This is a huge advantage in certain situations.

-Cliff
 
Why can't a combat knife be both functional and ergonomic?

I have made combat knives for the last 11 years and every REAL combat vet that I have met has a real personal attachment to their knife.

So I disagree that warriors don't sit around pondering grind lines and feel of their blades.

Here is a quote from WDW...a vet who spent 64'-71' in Army Security Agency LLVI teams and the rest of his life in Spec Ops. "I lived with my knife in the field for months at a time. What most people don't understand is what looks good and feels good at the knife shows doesn't necessarily translate in the field. Kraton gets slippery when you have bug spray or oil on your hands, and para cord would have never stood up to months of exposure in the rain and mud of Southeast Asia."

He carried a combat knife made by a Turkish sowrdsmith ... an awful lot like a Randall #2. It was properly made....carbon steel blade and a stacked leather handle.....and it did not rot or rust because it was taken care of. Stronger than a Randall #2...I would venture to say that this would be a sharpened pry bar too. And above all....it was comfortable.

A combat knife had better have a solid handle and a more than adequate crossguard and there is no reason for it not to fit the owner comfortably. Im my experience, SWAT type cops are not the best input for that type of design consideration. True combat vets usually are. Unfortunately, they are few and far between. The best that we can usually do is to find a SEAL or that has participated in mostly overnite ops.....not the best way to test a knife.

My comments are not meant to offend anyone....they are just an addition to this discussion. :-}
 
I had the unfortunate opportunity to defend myself a few years ago when an armed man was burglarizing my house. I was returning home from work and walked in on the man. I drew my Wicked Knives Woo and took a defensive posture, I guess the guy was scared because he took off. I totally agree with Mick. Under stress, who gives a damn about pretty handles and ergonomics. All the Woo is is a sharpened piece of steel and it is uncomfortable in the hand, but was I damn lucky to have it with me.
 
Okay then...

Memnoch... should have kept that knife. WP's were all one of a kind knives. Collectors are eating em up.

Tom... what the hell are you talking about? Get a grip weirdo...

Cliff... the knife was jammed between the lock bar and mechanism housing. The lock was forced apart.

XRAYED...
"I have made combat knives for the last 11 years and every REAL combat vet that I have met has a real personal attachment to their knife."

Um...what?... I would be interested in having you quantify what you mean by REAL combat vet. Then tell me how being attached to your knife applies to this topic.

"Kraton gets slippery when you have bug spray or oil on your hands, and para cord would have never stood up to months of exposure in the rain and mud of Southeast Asia."

Um...what?... Is this because Para-cord is completely synthetic and does not have the capacity to rot or mildew? Or because the quote "owner" didn't take care of his gear? Nope you already said he had a knife "made properly", by a Turkish sward smith (I have to say, I'm laughing as I type this) who hammered out some Fu@#ing leaf spring and put some leather washers stacked up...I'm sorry Sir but that is very funny. I'm not trying to be rude here, but were talking about tools. I'm sure your buddies knife is a treasure. And many blades are. I'm sure the knives you make are exceptional. Carbon Knives with leather washers were "the ****" 25 years ago.
Lets move on. No your buddy took care of his gear. Good soldiering. So why again wouldn't cord last? Because your friend doesn't like cord.

"Im my experience, SWAT type cops are not the best input for that type of design consideration. True combat vet usually are. Unfortunately, they are few and far between. The best that we can usually do is to find a SEAL or that has participated in mostly overnite ops.....not the best way to test a knife."

Um...what?...In exactly WHAT experience? Firstly, "SWAT type cops" face hardship and danger EVERY day. Their life is a domestic war. What are you thinking? They work with knives on a regular basis. They are a great test bed.

Okay now lets just get this over with...Both myself and my partner Duane, are combat vets. REAL combat vets. Whatever that may mean, I guarantee we qualify. Nearly every male I know, is involved in what people like to call Spec-Ops. We have thousands of knives in the hands of operators all over the world. That feedback, along with law enforcement feedback, is what drives our company.

When did we start talking about grip comfort?

Thanks for your posts

MS
 
DrRMJ....hey, congratulations on your survival. Good work stud.

Bye the way...our handles are very comfortable. I'm not sure how we got off here. There are no spikes or anything. I think what it comes down to is this; if you use your hands for a living, our handles will feel great to you. If not, there is a possibility that they may feel a bit harsh. If this is the case, send it back and we'll make it fit a little better. No big deal.

Later

MS
 
Just a couple thoughts...I think the Strider wrap is the most comfortable grip I have ever felt for use on a tool (there I said it and am sticking to it). It was what originally sold me on the first one I ever had. I know I'm not a REAL combat vet, but I've done my share and I'll leave it at that. I have used my Strider as a primary breaching tool on several occasions, because unlike REAL combat vets, I get in trouble if I just blow the door off the hinges (damn rules). Now the lock incident...that was done by a REAL combat vet, the knife was slipped into the U shaped part of the lock, and twisted until it broke. The guy who did it figured he was buying a new knife even before he did it, so he was real happy when the old Strider won that battle. Gear selection is one of those real personal things. Some of us have found the Strider tool kit to be a great piece of first line gear, for others they aren't, Ok, buy something else. I have developed a great friendship with the guys at Strider, because they are my type of people. It all started with the purchase of one piece of gear that worked great, and I'm glad that these kind of operators are out there producing gear for users.

------------------
He who advances is sure of heaven-He who retreats of eternal damnation.
 
Wow...I guess you did take offense to my post. Listen Mick....take all input when making a knife. If people have a problem with the comfort of your handles.....do something about it.

In my opinion along with many other knifemakers and users of knives, a cord wrap is nothing more than a shortcut to finishing a knife.

Question...do you do solid handles? I like your designs...is is an option you offer?

Also...don't knock the Turk blades....I have another model from the same maker....and I would put it up against anything.
 
When did we start talking about grip comfort?

I think you addressed this in your first post.

Also...I have made quite a few knives for SWAT and SRT members. Unfortunately, many designs by the actual members themselves have been too radical, too large, or totally impractical. What they essentially needed was the equivalent of a Cold Steel SRK (with a Kydex or Blackhawk sheath) and I told them as much. Not the way to sell knives is it? But then again...they only spent $40 and got all the knife (tool) they needed.
 
Thanks for the info on the lock, I would have assumed that was not possible due to the amount of force it would require, not due to lack of ability of the knife. I don't think I can do it, but do think I have one lying around that I have long since forgot the combination to. Something to experiment with anyway.

As for comfort, many of the things that people will complain about are probably not in the design intent of actual combat knives. For example if I was to do an extended period of whittling on hard woods with a WB I am pretty sure that I could blister my hand in several places due to the cord wrap bumps. However is this something that you are going to do on a regular basis in combat?

In general how much extended low to medium stress cutting is common place?

-Cliff
 
Hey there,

XRAYED...
You didn't offend me my friend, you simply stated an opinion. If my response to your opinion seemed harsh, I apologize. I come across that way sometimes. My reaction was to your second hand account. Spoken as fact. And to your wording of "made properly". Had you stated that the blade was made in a classical fashion, I would not have commented. Your statement of fact, that you have made ‘combat' knives for eleven years is a bit evasive. How many combat knives have you made in the last eleven years? Eleven years ago I was producing about one hundred knives a year. Every single blade was made for Military personnel. Now we do over a hundred a month. Maybe only half of those going to true users, but still quite a few.

An interesting fact is that of those knives sent out each month, about 98% are cord wrapped.

Good luck to you and your knife business.

Cliff...
Obviously your question is situation dependent. At times a huge amount of medium to high levels of labor are needed. But as with any tool, be it knife or shovel. If I'm worried, I'll wear gloves.

Thanks again for the great posts.

MS

Post Script:
The VERY best knife for the job, is the one you possess at the time.
 
Mick; When I stated "properly made" I meant that it assembled in a manner which caused it to withstand 30 years of climate changes which included Vietnam, Cambodia, Taiwan, Korea, Alaska, Bosnia, etc. It was not to insult your knives at all.

That is impressive that your business ships that many knives....I am glad to see the custom business is alive and well.

I am a part time maker...not a manufacturer. My knives have been carried by regular infantry guys, SF, special agents, and yes...even SWAT cops. I am proud to say that they have seen use all over the world and about every conflict since I started making them.

It is just my experience that nearly 100% of the vets who spent extended (months) time in the field want a solid, affixed handle. The reasons I am given against paracord included rot from exposure (which I have seen on LBE stuff)and the simple fact that it can get just plain dirty (blood, mud, oil,etc). I used to do wraps quite a bit and I liked them....but the people who were using them did not.

Maybe you are correct. It is possible that the days of the Randall, Rolex and star sapphire ring are gone. What we see now is the Casio....the earring...and the ???? knife.

Gee...I am starting to feel old.

No hard feelings Mick...keep at it...you sheathes are killer!!!

Greg

 
Hey Greg!

Strider does have a G10 handle available. It costs a bit more, but the option is there. Check out this link: Model WB for pics of both on a WB. I'm looking at purchasing a Strider knife and I will opt for the paracord-wrapped handle. Why? I like the feel and look of Strider's cord wrap. Personal preference. I believe they also offer a wood handle. See this link: Handle Materials for more info. I hope this helps!

--Robert

------------------
"They sicken of the calm, who know the storm."
RFrost5746@excite.com

My Knives
 
It seems there are two philosophies when it comes to grips on "war" knives.

One is represented by Strider (or Chris Reeve for that purpose). They prefer the non slip effect of checkered steel or the cord wrap above everything else.

The other viewpoint is the one MadDog, Mission and others have. Knives should have comfortable, durable, inflammable, non-conducting G10/Hytrel handles, which might get slippery when wet/contaminated.

Not every knife has to fulfill the same purpose, not every person needs/prefers the same knife. You just have to pick the one which is best suited for your needs.
 
First visit to the Strider forum, and this post caught my eye.

I have medium to soft hands as I do some manual work. When I was soldiering, after two weeks in the field my hands were usually in bits. After four weeks they were as tough as a buffalo's tongue. Two weeks back in barracks, they would go soft again (I smelled better too). When you are gunked up from field grime you need a handle that bites. I know when my hands have toughened because, when washed, they seem hard polished with even the cracks kevlared (warning: they ladder stockings on first touch, so defend your face from retribution
biggrin.gif
).

Once you are hardened up and fighting fit then ergonomics and other niceties are fairly irrelevant. Whatever tools you have, you'll just get on with the job. But, if you spend big bucks on a battle blade then it better measure up.

Only recently have I been educated on the forum on cord wrapped handles. Now I know better. The best cord wrapping gives a seriously good grip for work in grime conditions. We are not talking cheap untreated para cord here. Leather washered with spaces and roughened up is not bad either.

Pick up a Strider cord wrapped, or Project chechered steel, with soft hands and its a shock. Do it with hardened hands and it makes perfect sense.
My only resevation for bite back handles is on long lite machetes, which are used for extended periods. Hard wood polished by use, for some reason, works best. However, for short stout combat knives give me some bite.

Out of the military, with my medium soft hands and no real work load, I'm more than happy to have something less agressive and even, God forgive, something grippy like kraton. (Kraton and rubber type handles give me the most painful of blisters.)
I'll even go further and say that in civi street butch (bullet proof) knives are a waste of space. A small nicely tapered blade with a slim profile is the business. If you need anything more then you can find it in the tool box.

Remember the Gerber Guardian cats tongue - well up to the job.
 
Welcome to the forums, Strider Knives. I am sure that there will be much interesting reading here.

Just one thing on this thread...Aren't your para-cord handles easily replaced by the user? If so, why would anyone worry about the long-term durability of them?

By the way, Mick, my bedside companion is a S&W Model 19 2 1/2 inch .357 loaded with Winchester 125 grain Silvertips...Yes it will hurt to fire...yes, I will fire it if I have to. And yes, the Strider-Buck is an awesome folder. Need a spear or drop point, though.
smile.gif

------------------
Dave Fortman

~Buck Collectors Club~
~Lifetime Member #736~

[This message has been edited by Warhawk (edited 10-04-2000).]
 
Here it is 5:30 A.M. Thursday morning, Ive been here sence 3:30 A.M. heat treating sharpened Crow Bars, Now I know why they took me to hawaii with them, so I couldent complain about it when they started doubling there production. Mick had to get my two bits in. Paul.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top