A2 Steel or D2?

A2 ! Just keep your fingers off the blade and don't live by the ocean and you're good to go!
 
Just keep a light coat of oil on that blade, Master Leu. I thought you learned that in knife school? Or was that night school? lol!
Lycosa
 
We work with both a lot. D-2 can be heat treated a bit harder than A-2 but it is MUCH harder to work with. A-2 will get into the 56 Rockwell range ( which is very hard ). A-2 will grind much nicer and hold an edge just as well. For my $$ I'd definitely go with A-2.
 
Hi omcjf, Did you mean to say that "56" is really hard? I suspect a typo. Anyway A2 is commonly hardened to 60 and can get harder than that.
 
Yes, I meant to say that 56 RC is very hard. Take a solid carbide end mill and try and mill on 56 RC material and I think you'll agree with me. Although A-2 can be hardened to 60 RC it tends to make it much more brittle than you'd like it. We have found that 56 RC is the ideal hardness for A-2, leaving it very hard but not too brittle.
 
A2 hands down! It has just as good edge retention, and gets crazy sharp easy. A2 is also more malliable. In other words, A2 can be used in bigger knives without shattering,unlike D2.
 
Gerberblades said:
A2 hands down! It has just as good edge retention, and gets crazy sharp easy. A2 is also more malliable. In other words, A2 can be used in bigger knives without shattering,unlike D2.
Click to expand...

I must reapectfully disagree. A-2 does not have as good edge retention as D-2.

Check Joe Talmadge's "Steel FAQ" on this forum, and check Crucible's website.

A2 also does not have as good corrosion resistance as "semi-stainless" D2. check the chromium content on Crucible's website, or AG Russell's website.
 
Maybe you're right, Ben, but I have a little trouble with your earlier post where you said D2 holds an edge (much) longer, with "much" in bold print. Is the difference really that noticeable? I'm not saying it's not noticeable, but is it really that noticeable?? I mean, enough to put such special emphasis on "much"? I own knives in both steels and I would tend to agree that D2 seems to hold its edge longer, but without any "magnifcent" emphasis.

I still like A2 because, try as I might, I cannot get D2 as sharp as A2, or as sharp as any other steel for that matter ( I admit this may be due to technique or lack of experience).

I can appreciate that some folks like D2 alot, but it no longer does anything for me. Now, IF I could someday get my RAT-3 *scary sharp*, I might be tempted to order a Dozier or other fine D2 bladed knife.
 
I like either steel which isn't much help, but if I have to re-profile a blade and then put a final 40 degree edge on a 30 degree bevel, I'll curse D2 for some time longer than an A2 blade in regards to CRK A2 and Benchmade D2. My 806D2 nearly drove me to drink (more :D) to get it where I like my edge. After that I enjoy both steels equally enough I can't recommend one over the other, you'll do well either way in my view.
 
omcjf: For a "general purpose hunting knife, not a chopper" A2 is routinely hardened to 60 RC. I have never run across anyone using 56 RC. It is generally stated that A2 has a particular sweet spot for combined hardness and toughness at 60. In the context of premium hunting knives 56 RC is exceptionally soft. For example Buck Knives hardens their 420HC blades in the 58 RC region and that is not a tool steel. What is your target use for an A2 blade at 56?

As Larrin stated, we don't mill our knives-we cut with them. And when our knife makers shape our knives they don't use end mills-they use bimetallic saws or water water jets and grinders. We want our knives to approximate the performance of tools like the end mill. A2 is what they make drill bits out of so we expect to get high performance out of it. It needs to run softer than the drill bit to make it tougher, but we buy tool steel blades so that we can have high performance from our knives. For some uses 56 RC is a reasonable choice, but for a thinnly profiled hunting knife the edge is likely to dull by dinging and rolling more than another steel at 60 RC.
 
At a local metal shop the foreman told me the cutting blades that were cutting the steel there were tool steel, like A-2. What else can I say? Don't jump all over me!
Lycosa
 
You have to underharden A2 quite a bit to temper back to 56 Rc where it has a toughness peak. I just looked at the hardness vs. toughness for A2 for three different types of toughness testing and none of them have a peak at 56 Rc.
 
Let me explain my position a little bit more. I am not a knifemaker, nor have I ever claimed to be on this forum or any other forums. My expertise is in the Tool & Die industry. Come March this will be our 39th. year in business. We make Molds and dies and we have cut and ground literally thousands of knives for industrial cutters/grinders/granulators. We use A-2 more than any other type of steel but have aso worked extensively in D-2, S-7, H-13, 0-1 as well as 300 series, 400 series and 17-4 stainless steels.

In my haste to recommend A-2 I have applied principles that work in my industry to knives, which are generally much smaller and thinner than what I am used to and serve a different purpose than the types we make. Therefore, I will appologize to you all right now. I think that a higher hardness would definitely be much more suitable to this application.

I can, however, tell you that if I were to make the types of chopping blades that we make and take them to 60 Rc I would have them returned to me the next week for welding & regrinding. 56 Rc that is double drawn is very much a standard in my industry, but again, I have applied my industry standards to knifemaking. I should not have done this.

I am not trying to start some big controversy here but I just wanted to explain that my opinions do not come somewhere out in left field. They are based on some knowledge and expertise in working extensively with this type of steel.

By the way, I still think that for my $$ I would choose A-2 over D-2. :)
 
omcjf,
Thanks for your post. That was very interesting. Experience is a great teacher!
Lycosa
 
The thing about the Kyoto "protocols" is that the USA doesn;t recognize them (thank goodness and common sense), and of the countries that do, they don;t abide by them. So...give me A2 over Kyoto anyday.
 
Lycosa said:
At a local metal shop the foreman told me the cutting blades that were cutting the steel there were tool steel, like A-2. What else can I say? Don't jump all over me!
Lycosa
Click to expand...

DOG PILE ON LYCOSA!!!!!


:D


i like both a2 and d2. but my appreciation of the various steels is the result of the makers from whom i chose to buy. i dont seek out particular steels, only particular makers.

if a maker offers the same knife in different steels, i chose the one with which i have had the best experiences.

the only d2 knives i have owned have been from bob dozier. the only a2 knives i have owned have been from chris reeve. both take and hold an extremely sharp edge. i have not noticed any appreciable difference in these areas with these steels.

i can say that the knives i have gotten from dozier were sharper from the factory than those from crk. probably has nothing to do with the steel, but how sharp each maker choses grind their products.
 
KICK me when I'm down. It's been done before!! Good post Mori! And tell em I did NOT come up with that title. Wait, I just did.
Lycosa
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top