AARRGGG,,,What am I doing wrong?

Stan Wilson

Stan Wilson

Joined
Apr 26, 2000
Messages
94
Having soldered hundreds of pipe joints I was not prepared for the clusterf*** I ended up with soldering a guard to a blade.I cleaned the blade and guard first and followed the instructions in the K&G catalog.I used Stay-Brite solder and flux and I ended up with solder everywhere but the joint.All I can do is clean it up and try again but some tips would be helpfull.Also how much dicoloration can the blade show before it starts to affect the temper?

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Failures are only Failures if we Fail to learn from them.
 
REBOS-

I have been trying to do solderless guards recently, but I always used to solder my guards on and got pretty proficient at it.

The very first thing to say before describing any sort of technique is that you need a tight fit. Gap-o-sis isn't something you want before you solder.

First, I cleaned the parts with liquid ivory, and then laquer thinner, making sure not to touch any mating surfaces. Press the guard onto the blade and crimp it down with vise-grips. Then mount the blade vertically in a vise by the tang. Some anti-heat paste will help to keep from getting the blade too hot.

I applied the flux to the joint area with either a syringe or a fine tipped bottle (like the air tool oil applicators).

With the propane torch I apply heat from below the guard in an upward direction until the flux starts to bubble and change color slightly, then I add a little more flux.

Right about that time the solder will flow. Apply it carefully. Then use a HOT stainless steel needle to run through the joint making sure there are no bubbles in it.

After it cools off I clean it up with soap and water, then use an annealed jeweler's file to scrape off the excess solder.

Then with a razor edge buff in my dremel I buff the solder joint.

This always worked and left me with a very fine line of solder with no gaps.

I also tried mounting the blade in the vise and applying the heat from the ricasso area, thus applying the solder from the underside of the quard. I know a lot of makers prefer this, it didn't make much difference for me.

In Loveless's video he uses a different type of solder and an electric soldering iron and it worked really slick. If you plan on making a lot of soldered guards it would probably be worth setting up.

I'm sure there are a million different ways to solder and I might have even made some of the guys cringe for whatever reason, but this method worked for me from the very first time I did it in my shop(after a fellow showed me how in his shop).

Again I think the biggest factor is a tight joint to begin with and clean parts.

Good luck
Nick

 
Thanks for the quick reply.I dont think the fit is the problem,I may have been too concerned about getting the blade too hot.The solder has a melting point of 430 degrees and the blade was tempered at 425.Acually the catalog says it melts at 430 but the label on the solder says it melts at 400 degrees.

[This message has been edited by REBOS (edited 06-09-2000).]
 
Nicks' right on the money about doing the solder joint, that's pretty much the same way I do it. You might try wrapping the blade with a shop towel and then wetting it to prevent heat travel. I did this before I tried the heat paste and it works fairly well. The heat paste is the only way to go if you'll be doing much soldering though.
Good luck
Jon
 
first question...did you get a frontal lobotomy before you began to make knives?? if not you are doomed to failure....then, i cant say it enough....clean it good...inside the guard and all around the blade, and DONT touch it after, or the oil from you hands will doom you again....use PLENTY of flux, the heat and the flux are the key ingredients to getting the solder to go where you want it too....once its hot and the solder is flowing, i use a small thin stainless rod, 3/32 or 1/16 to pull the solder along where i want it to go, but it wont stay there without continuous fluxing, hope you have an acid brush to put in on with, use plenty....having the proper heat, everything fluxed very well, and a nice fix and you are on your way...good luck...it is not easy to do....especially when you see someone do it and it looks like making duck soup....like the first time i pulled up to pipeline....the good guys make it look easy, but it isnt..dont be afraid to use plenty of solder too, you can brush off the excess with a wet (wet with flux) acid brush.

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just read nicks post....the vise grips are ok, if you have a nice snub fit, but if not the guard will pull apart when you take them off....i usually bend the top of the guard in my vise, so that i have to prop it open to get the knife in, and it acts as its own clamp, never seen any one else do it, my invention....just a little squeeze so its snug at the top....if you dont like this idea forget you ever read it...
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I think Tom and I pretty much layed things out the same there, but something he added that I forgot is don't be afraid to use the flux.

I like a syringe as an applicator (from my days as a horse trainer...okay, bad joke).

Another thing, steel wool with some flux on it will wipe excess solder off easily as long as it's still hot (WATCH THOSE FINGERS).

And clean clean clean parts.

Nick
 
One other little bit of advice....

Clean the blade and especially the area around the solder joint THOROUGHLY after you are done. You really don't want any of the flux (acid) to etch your blade or guard.

C Wilkins
 
Wrap the blade in cooper
to keep the heat away from the blade
a match stick with steel wool on it
wipe away the extra left over as long as it is still at it's melting point
 
i will reiterate....wiping the excess solder off while it is still liquid with an acid brush wet with flux is the very best way, it leaves the joint with a nice finish as well as leaving just the right amount of solder in the joint, and besides..thats the proper way as per Bob Loveless' book...
 
Tom you are correct.I stay away from steel wool in the shop,because it has about the same amount of oil as your hands,thus keeping it from rusting,and can contaminate things without your knowing it.
RB
 
After building hundreds of slot car chassis in my younger days from brass, Ti. and silver solder, I SWEAR by the liquid Tinnermans flux. I find that I can just about flow the solder anywhere I want with a toothpick and the liquid flux. It's available at welding suppliers. It works great on any guard material and blade steel EVEN Talonite!! I use the low temp solder from Sheffields.
Neil

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Talonite, New Pics, Etc., Etc.!!
Blackwood Knives
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IT WORKED!!!
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I took the guard off cleaned it up REAL GOOD,wrapped the blade in a wet shop rag,applied flux with a syringe then started to apply heat as soon as the flux started to bubble I re-fluxed it and the solder just flowed right in.There was very little to clean up,just flicked it off with a flux brush.It sure is nice when things go as planned. Thanks for all the input.Now I get to mess with epoxy,any warnings before I glue on the slabs.
 
Same as soldering, clean, clean (acetone is a good degreaser), and in this case freshly sanded surfaces to insure a good glue bond.-Guy Thomas
 
I saw George Herron solder a stainless guard
onto a stainless blade using Eutectic 157 solder and a HEAT GUN. The joint was flawless. George said that the HEAT GUN was less likely to overheat the joint. Overheating will cause the solder to do anything but flow properly.

Maybe after we have been making knives for as long as George, we will be able to solder as well as he does.

Hope it helps.

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Barry
Jones Knives
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REBOS- I'm really glad you got it figured out, ALWAYS a good feeling when something goes right.

I never thought about the oil in the steel wool, I'll have to use the brush with flux next time.

Neil- I'm interested in the flux too, is "Tinnermans" the name of it? Even worked on Talonite?

Thanks!
Nick
 
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