About ready to give up on Case knives

As a case guy, I can sympathize. I buy Case's from the 70's through present. I'd guess that 1 in 3 have enough QC issues that I return or resell them. What keeps me coming back is 2 out of 3 are stellar, just outstanding knives. No matter what, when buying a new Case, I always anticipate I will have to run it through the Lansky to clean up the blades - it's just expected, as they do such a poor job in factory sharpening. The Lansky makes quick work of cleaning up rounded over points and such - if I had to do this freehand, I wouldn't be so amicable to Case's shoddy factory sharpening. So, it's just a crapshoot if you're buying late model Case's sight unseen .... but the good ones are worth the trouble IMHO.
 
Lansky1 said:
As a case guy, I can sympathize. I buy Case's from the 70's through present. I'd guess that 1 in 3 have enough QC issues that I return or resell them. What keeps me coming back is 2 out of 3 are stellar, just outstanding knives. No matter what, when buying a new Case, I always anticipate I will have to run it through the Lansky to clean up the blades - it's just expected, as they do such a poor job in factory sharpening. The Lansky makes quick work of cleaning up rounded over points and such - if I had to do this freehand, I wouldn't be so amicable to Case's shoddy factory sharpening. So, it's just a crapshoot if you're buying late model Case's sight unseen .... but the good ones are worth the trouble IMHO.
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Interesting.
I must be extremely lucky, or just have different standards.
The sharpening I get, my as ground SS sodbuster JR which was my first case was very very well done but the rest I have had to sharpen.
I've been happy just freehanding the factory grind to a shaving sharp edge, but having something guided to really make it nice and even would be nice and I may have to consider it getting something.
 
CelloDan said:
Thank you !
I am not an expert sharpener by any means. I adapted a cheap guided system ( similar to a lansky ) to use
3M Aluminum Oxide Films for Sharpening . I see Lee Valley has diamond films too but I have not tried those ones yet. I love my set up for regular stainless steels and especially for carbon steels.
Click to expand...
Can i ask what grit sizes you use? I'm impressed with your work, and i am always willing to give something a try.:)
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
Tightening the side-to-side pivot play on Case Sod Busters is tricky, but doable.

I have a 2138 SS Sod Buster (2009 vintage) that had similar issues, when I first bought it. Found it secondhand on the 'Bay in 'as new' condition, for $13. So I didn't have any qualms about any small issues and no reservations about tweaking it to suit my expectations. For a while, I'd just tried to squeeze the pivot tight in a Pana-Vise with some nylon jaw inserts, which prevented marring of the handles or the brass heads of the cutlery rivet. That remedy would sort of work in the short-term. But it didn't take long for it to loosen up again.

I finally figured out, just squeezing it in a vise would move the handles inward, but really didn't compress the rivet at all. This is why it wouldn't stay tight for long. So, I changed my approach and used a flat-faced steel punch in a size approximately equal to the diameter of the rivet's head (maybe ~ 1/4" - 5/16"), and a mallet, to apply some tapping pressure directly atop the rivet and with no pressure on the handle itself, with the opposite side backed against a hard surface (I used the 'anvil' portion on a garage bench vise). It takes quite a lot of very careful & measured taps against the rivet head, to get it to move appreciably and compress the rivet so it holds. But once it does move, it stays put. These rivets are strong and hold better than I'd previously assumed, but it takes some patience and finesse to get them perfectly snug with no play. I tightened mine enough to completely eliminate the play. It left the pivot just a tiny bit slow to snap the blade shut with some confidence - but it does still close on it's own. I'm satisfied with that. The little bit of marring of the brass rivet head and of the Delrin handle can very easily be fixed with some light sanding with some wet/dry sandpaper (600+ grit works well). So after all that tapping & tweaking, I had it looking like I'd never messed with it.
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Thanks for your explanation, well explained and very useful.:thumbsup:. You never stop learning on the forum.:).
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
Tightening the side-to-side pivot play on Case Sod Busters is tricky, but doable.

I have a 2138 SS Sod Buster (2009 vintage) that had similar issues, when I first bought it. Found it secondhand on the 'Bay in 'as new' condition, for $13. So I didn't have any qualms about any small issues and no reservations about tweaking it to suit my expectations. For a while, I'd just tried to squeeze the pivot tight in a Pana-Vise with some nylon jaw inserts, which prevented marring of the handles or the brass heads of the cutlery rivet. That remedy would sort of work in the short-term. But it didn't take long for it to loosen up again.

I finally figured out, just squeezing it in a vise would move the handles inward, but really didn't compress the rivet at all. This is why it wouldn't stay tight for long. So, I changed my approach and used a flat-faced steel punch in a size approximately equal to the diameter of the rivet's head (maybe ~ 1/4" - 5/16"), and a mallet, to apply some tapping pressure directly atop the rivet and with no pressure on the handle itself, with the opposite side backed against a hard surface (I used the 'anvil' portion on a garage bench vise). It takes quite a lot of very careful & measured taps against the rivet head, to get it to move appreciably and compress the rivet so it holds. But once it does move, it stays put. These rivets are strong and hold better than I'd previously assumed, but it takes some patience and finesse to get them perfectly snug with no play. I tightened mine enough to completely eliminate the play. It left the pivot just a tiny bit slow to snap the blade shut with some confidence - but it does still close on it's own. I'm satisfied with that. The little bit of marring of the brass rivet head and of the Delrin handle can very easily be fixed with some light sanding with some wet/dry sandpaper (600+ grit works well). So after all that tapping & tweaking, I had it looking like I'd never messed with it.
Click to expand...
Technically they aren't rivets per se. Someone on here kindly sent me photos showing Case disassembly, they use something called Chicago fasteners, or something like that, which is two bolt-like pieces, one male and the other female, which are pressed together. It works sort of like a rivet, but since there is no actual head deformation, they don't peen over the same as other rivets. I've tightened plenty of blades by ust giving a few sharp raps with a hammer, and all of them have stayed tight afterwards. The system in the Case could also be tightened easily by simply using a vice or hammer to drive the two halves together more. But with this new, redesigned Case, it's like the male piece bottoms out in the female piece before it can make the knife truly tight. I tried hammering and using the vice, and it actually bent the flat head of the fasteners down without moving the center at all. You can see where the center, perfectly outlined in the middle of the head, now stands slightly proud of the rest of the face on both sides of the knife. I am not concerned with looks or perfection, and this seems to do the trick ust as well (since the heads now draw the scales down more tightly), but I would prefer to be able to ust drive the actual fastener halves together more firmly. Why use a pivot that has ust BARELY enough depth to form a useable knife, but not enough to make it truly snug? Did they find they could save a few cents on assembly, because now they don't need to be careful about how much pressure they apply to get the perfect balance between tightness and ease of opening? Now they ust press them together until they stop, and call it good enough, even if the blade flops around all over the place.
I have some other theories about these pivots; since they are brass, and quite malleable, in theory if one used enough pressure or a heavy enough hammer, one could actually compress the entire fastener, which would squash the shaft and actually make it get shorter and wider, which ought to tighten the blade, both by drawning the frames together, and by filling the pivot hole in the blade up more fully. The danger is that it widens too much, binding the blade up and making it very stiff. The other possible result is that the pivot actually bends under the force, which sounds bad, but in theory that should do much the same thing as what I ust described, and again, the danger is that if you go TOO far you bind the blade up. That's why forceful, but not TOO forceful hammer blows are needed, and why it is wise to check every few blows to check on progress. This is mostly theoretical, of course. Never actually tried it. All I know is that my new Case DID everntually tighten up once enough force was applied, but I couldn't say which of these mechanisms was responsible.
 
The CASE Swayback always arrives with a point/ on point :cool:

Admittedly, the Sodbuster's blade is of an entirely different sort but @Modoc ED observation about the as ground blades is important.

I like CASE knives but being in Europe and due to their recent INSANE policy of forbidding vendors from selling outside the USA I'm cut off from my supplies of these American giants :thumbsdown:

8cmXlrp.jpg
 
KHarper said:
Technically they aren't rivets per se. Someone on here kindly sent me photos showing Case disassembly, they use something called Chicago fasteners, or something like that, which is two bolt-like pieces, one male and the other female, which are pressed together. It works sort of like a rivet, but since there is no actual head deformation, they don't peen over the same as other rivets. I've tightened plenty of blades by ust giving a few sharp raps with a hammer, and all of them have stayed tight afterwards. The system in the Case could also be tightened easily by simply using a vice or hammer to drive the two halves together more. But with this new, redesigned Case, it's like the male piece bottoms out in the female piece before it can make the knife truly tight. I tried hammering and using the vice, and it actually bent the flat head of the fasteners down without moving the center at all. You can see where the center, perfectly outlined in the middle of the head, now stands slightly proud of the rest of the face on both sides of the knife. I am not concerned with looks or perfection, and this seems to do the trick ust as well (since the heads now draw the scales down more tightly), but I would prefer to be able to ust drive the actual fastener halves together more firmly. Why use a pivot that has ust BARELY enough depth to form a useable knife, but not enough to make it truly snug? Did they find they could save a few cents on assembly, because now they don't need to be careful about how much pressure they apply to get the perfect balance between tightness and ease of opening? Now they ust press them together until they stop, and call it good enough, even if the blade flops around all over the place.
I have some other theories about these pivots; since they are brass, and quite malleable, in theory if one used enough pressure or a heavy enough hammer, one could actually compress the entire fastener, which would squash the shaft and actually make it get shorter and wider, which ought to tighten the blade, both by drawning the frames together, and by filling the pivot hole in the blade up more fully. The danger is that it widens too much, binding the blade up and making it very stiff. The other possible result is that the pivot actually bends under the force, which sounds bad, but in theory that should do much the same thing as what I ust described, and again, the danger is that if you go TOO far you bind the blade up. That's why forceful, but not TOO forceful hammer blows are needed, and why it is wise to check every few blows to check on progress. This is mostly theoretical, of course. Never actually tried it. All I know is that my new Case DID everntually tighten up once enough force was applied, but I couldn't say which of these mechanisms was responsible.
Click to expand...

If you search the web on 'cutlery rivets', the two-piece, pressed-together fastener you've described is what you'll find, and is the closest to what Case uses in these pivots. Vendor pic of 'cutlery rivets' is below:

cutlery-rivets-brass-nickel-silver-stainless-946389_2000x.jpg



There is another cutlery fastener called a 'Chicago screw', which is a two-piece, threaded fastener which is screwed together. Case doesn't use these in the Sod Buster.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
If you search the web on 'cutlery rivets', the two-piece, pressed-together fastener you've described is what you'll find, and is the closest to what Case uses in these pivots. Vendor pic of 'cutlery rivets' is below:

cutlery-rivets-brass-nickel-silver-stainless-946389_2000x.jpg



There is another cutlery fastener called a 'Chicago screw', which is a two-piece, threaded fastener which is screwed together. Case doesn't use these in the Sod Buster.
Click to expand...

Hi David, what has your experience been regarding the rivets being pressed/driven all the way from the factory with no further room for tightening ?
I am wondering in "case" ( see what I did there :) ) my soddy develops play after use
 
CelloDan said:
Hi David, what has your experience been regarding the rivets being pressed/driven all the way from the factory with no further room for tightening ?
I am wondering in "case" ( see what I did there :) ) my soddy develops play after use
Click to expand...

I honestly don't know how deep Case drives these rivets together. I'd hope, if they're smart about it, they'd leave a little more depth for adjustment. In other words, I'd hope that means there'll be enough margin left in driving them together, that there'll still be some room to tighten them up.

In general terms, I think Case & other cutlers usually use a temporary shim of a few thousandth's thickness (or maybe thinner), inserted into the pivot between the liner and tang to leave enough room for smooth opening & closing, when they're pinning & peening the pivots in their knives. After they 'snug it up' with the shim in place, they pull the shim out. Doing it that way, it ensures that the pivot won't be so tight that the blade can't close on it's own. The flipside to that is, they might also leave a little more 'wiggle room' in the pivot than some of us might prefer.
 
Lee D said:
Same.
I did spend considerably more for a canoe in giraffe bone, and it was more of the same. Easy to fix, but I feel like I shouldn’t have to.
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I'd been wondering if the more pricey cover options produce better general quality. I'm disappointed to hear they don't. like you said, that issue can be fixed, but in my mind that usually involves removing blade material; material that you paid for.

The other thing I find unsettling about Case is that they have proprietary steel, which can be changed in it's composition and the name remains the same, from what I hear. I wish they'd just make something in 1095 or 440C and take the "mystery meat" feeling out of it.
 
I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread but it's also been my experience that Case's "as ground" blades have nice pointy tips. They should offer that type of finish more often. I like it better than a tumbled high polish anyway. I wouldn't personally object if they made all of their stainless blades in that finish.
 
Throwing this in for more clarification...

Regarding the fasteners known as 'cutlery rivets', here's the patent documentation linked below, with the drawing below that.

Curiously enough, this patent was apparently approved (as stamped) in 1967 - same year that Case introduced the Sod Buster pattern (2138). Coincidence?? Who knows for sure... ;)

https://patents.google.com/patent/US3316793
US3316793-drawings-page-1.png
 
cudgee said:
Can i ask what grit sizes you use? I'm impressed with your work, and i am always willing to give something a try.:)
Click to expand...

Started with the one in the pic for the reprofiling at 100 micron, followed by 30 and 9 and finally 3 micron ( they even have two more finer grades at 1 and 0.3 micron but I did not go that far ) They have and adhesive backing so you can stick them to a flat surface.

They have diamond films too that go by different grades but I have not tried those

kqRIYs2.jpg
 
CelloDan said:
Started with the one in the pic for the reprofiling at 100 micron, followed by 30 and 9 and finally 3 micron ( they even have two more finer grades at 1 and 0.3 micron but I did not go that far ) They have and adhesive backing so you can stick them to a flat surface.

They have diamond films too that go by different grades but I have not tried those

kqRIYs2.jpg
Click to expand...
Thanks mate, i have never tried to get a mirror polish on my edges, but after seeing your finished work thought i would like to give it a try. You never stop learning and should always be willing to try something new. Have found a supplier over here that has a large selection of different sandpapers and lapping products etc., so can get what i need easily, which makes a big difference. Hope you like your delrin Sodbuster that apparently someone here on the forum inspired you to buy.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::D;):).
 
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My experience with Case knives is limited to 4 mini trappers, 2 trappers, 1 tribal lock, 1
saddlehorn and 1 muskrat . A few are close to perfect and the rest are excellent. Smooth medium pull
excellent snap with virtually no blade play. Some of them I can nitpick and say the blades
aren't perfectly centered or some other minor flaw that's not important to me especially for
the price paid.
 
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