ABS style knives

flatgrinder

flatgrinder

Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
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I have two questions in regards to traditional style ABS knives.

The first is on a knife like the one below in the link:

http://www.jeridjohnson.com/knife_images/44a.jpg

How is a mortised tang done? I know Terry Primos in his tutorial splits the block in half and then mills out a slot for the tang -but is this how everyone does it? What are the alternatives? I've seen quite a few makers use a pin similiar to the picture above, if a pin is used, is a hole drilled in a block? Or is the block always split?

The second question is how do makers get that ring around the guard?

An example: http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/knight10.htm

I assume it's filed in, is a jig used?

Any tricks of the trade or links to online tutorials would be greatly appreciated! :thumbup:
 
I only make hidden tang knives and I prefer drilling the block in one piece.

Make the guard first, fit it to the shoulders of the blade, lay the tang atop the wood block, pressing the fitted guard against the end of the block, where the hole is to be drilled. Trace the position of the tang and transfer that to the end of the block. Bore the hole to match the tang. Use a zip cutter to complete the hole.

I do guards, like shown in the link, with a triangle and a round file.
You could do the one shown in two pieces.

Fred
 
As far as hidden tang handles go, you don't have to split and mortise the block (though that is one method). You can also drill the block and fit the tang to it then add the pin to tighten things up and secure it. I was shown a good method for this by J. Neilson, though I haven't yet had time to try it on my own. Do a search in the forums for "hidden tang" and you should find a few threads about it.

My understanding on the grooved ferrules is that you set to it with a round file and try to keep it straight :)

-d
 
Fred.Rowe said:
I only make hidden tang knives and I prefer drilling the block in one piece.

Make the guard first, fit it to the shoulders of the blade, lay the tang atop the wood block, pressing the fitted guard against the end of the block, where the hole is to be drilled. Trace the position of the tang and transfer that to the end of the block. Bore the hole to match the tang. Use a zip cutter to complete the hole.

I do guards, like shown in the link, with a triangle and a round file.
You could do the one shown in two pieces.

Fred
Click to expand...
Fred....what is a zip cutter? I am having a time with tang holes, especially in troublesome woods like ironwood.
 
jdm61 said:
Fred....what is a zip cutter? I am having a time with tang holes, especially in troublesome woods like ironwood.
Click to expand...
I don't think thats the proper name. They are used in high speed Drimel type tools. They look like a drill bit but will cut laterally as well as, down and against the point. Once you drill your holes with a drill press use this cutter to finish up, cutting the web between the drilled holes. They make quick work of this chore.
You can find them at Lowes or the like in the tool dept.

Fred
 
Flatgrinder one trick to keep the ferrule groove straight is to make a jig. When you have the ferrule to shape then bolt it to a flat plate. Make ( really don't know how to say it properly) L shape jig to lay your round file in the L shape and slide it around your ferrule to file the groove. That will guarantee the the groove it equal distance from the edge all the way around. Different heights for different grooves in your ferrules. Mike
 
Great replies as always, but what about mortised tangs?

Here's Jerry Fisk's take on the subject: http://www.fisk-knives.com/fiskcutlery.htm

Basically, a "mortised tang" is what you think it is. The material is split into two pieces, and a mortise (slot) half the tang's thickness is cut into each.

The advantage (at least in theory) is, that such a joint will allow natural materials like wood to breathe a bit, without splitting apart the joint if/when the material swells with humidity, etc. I'm not sure how much difference this really makes in the long run, over years of "normal" use...

My first-ever knifemaking project was a Ka-Bar rebuild, back in the Reagan era. I made a mortised-tang handle out of "PakkaWood" scales (the same thing they call Diamondwood nowadays, as far as I can tell) after reading how somewhere. I made the mortises quite snug and secured the whole thing with super-glue. It's held up very well to pretty hard use over the years, but nonetheless, I no longer build mortised tangs without at least one pin. It just makes me feel better.

The technique does allow cool things like bookmatched scales and nice spacers down/around the "spine" of the handle, which are more difficult to incorporate otherwise. There's a pretty convincing school-of-thought, saying that fiber spacers absorb shock and therefore, prevent breakage.
 
Fred.Rowe said:
I don't think thats the proper name. They are used in high speed Drimel type tools. They look like a drill bit but will cut laterally as well as, down and against the point. Once you drill your holes with a drill press use this cutter to finish up, cutting the web between the drilled holes. They make quick work of this chore.
You can find them at Lowes or the like in the tool dept.

Fred
Click to expand...

Do they make ones that are 5 inches long?
 
jdm61 said:
Do they make ones that are 5 inches long?
Click to expand...

Haven't seen a 'rotozip' or 'drill mill' type in 5 inch lengths. Checking mine (I've got a VERY handy Ryobi 18 volt rechargable one the I rig into my drill guide, and use on jobsites) I've got about 2.75 inches.

If- big if- I understand it right, the hidden tangs generally narrow as you go down, so you could just straight drill in steps, and use the zip bits for milling the wider and more angled parts near the hilt?

Haven't tried a hidden tang yet, I've got one I want to make, but... need to make the blade first :)
 
jdm61 said:
Do they make ones that are 5 inches long?
Click to expand...
The ones I have are 3 3/4". I would like to find some in a 5" length.

Fred



"If I understand it right, the hidden tangs generally narrow as you go down, so you could just straight drill in steps, and use the zip bits for milling the wider and more angled parts near the hilt"?

This is the approach I use. Fred
 
koyote said:
Haven't seen a 'rotozip' or 'drill mill' type in 5 inch lengths. Checking mine (I've got a VERY handy Ryobi 18 volt rechargable one the I rig into my drill guide, and use on jobsites) I've got about 2.75 inches.

If- big if- I understand it right, the hidden tangs generally narrow as you go down, so you could just straight drill in steps, and use the zip bits for milling the wider and more angled parts near the hilt?

Haven't tried a hidden tang yet, I've got one I want to make, but... need to make the blade first :)
Click to expand...
Rotozip , thanks Koyote, for joging my memory.

Fred
 
My problem is always getting the bottom of the hole routed out. With maple and other "gummy" woods you can burn it or drive it in that last little bit, but with very brittle woods like ironwood, ebony and snakewood, you had better make sure that the entire hole is big enough or perhpas a bit oversized. Trying to coax those woods on has only ended in splitting and cracking for me. They may be good candidates for morticing.
 
Evening all. On hidden tangs using a single block of wood I use a special tool made by John Perry. It is a reamer or scraping type tool he makes out of L6 I believe. He makes them in different sizes. I have 1/8" and 1/4" wide and approximately seven inches long. They are expensive but worth every penny. I can drill a hole to match the thickness of the tang and have it fitted in about 10-20 minutes. Just look up John at the blade show and ask him about them. By the way the fit and finish on these is typical of his knives and his being a machinist.

Brion Tomberlin
Anvil Top Custom Knives
 
BRTATCK said:
Evening all. On hidden tangs using a single block of wood I use a special tool made by John Perry. It is a reamer or scraping type tool he makes out of L6 I believe. He makes them in different sizes. I have 1/8" and 1/4" wide and approximately seven inches long. They are expensive but worth every penny. I can drill a hole to match the thickness of the tang and have it fitted in about 10-20 minutes. Just look up John at the blade show and ask him about them. By the way the fit and finish on these is typical of his knives and his being a machinist.

Brion Tomberlin
Anvil Top Custom Knives
Click to expand...
I had wanted to get one of those and ended up with the cheaper round version from Uncle Al. Not bad, but not the same. It won't go into a 3/16th hole and I suspect that John's 1/8 one will. I have also ones that John Horrigan and Ken Durham have made for themselves and I was abut ready to try that with some leftover O1.
 
I will not be able to make the blade show, any other options to get a hold of one of Johns drill rigs??
 
BRTATCK said:
Evening all. On hidden tangs using a single block of wood I use a special tool made by John Perry. It is a reamer or scraping type tool he makes out of L6 I believe. He makes them in different sizes. I have 1/8" and 1/4" wide and approximately seven inches long. They are expensive but worth every penny. I can drill a hole to match the thickness of the tang and have it fitted in about 10-20 minutes. Just look up John at the blade show and ask him about them. By the way the fit and finish on these is typical of his knives and his being a machinist.

Brion Tomberlin
Anvil Top Custom Knives
Click to expand...

Thanks Brion! When I saved the photos (in '05) I didn't note the makers name and my memory left me a long time ago!

Dave


This is John's....yes?
orig.jpg



orig.jpg
 
Are these tools made by John Perry from Mayflower, Arkansas or the ABS Mastersmith? Thx.
 
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