ABS test knives with sheaths?

2knife

2knife

Joined
Mar 13, 2002
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Is sheath-work a requirement in the ABS, for test knives? Seems like it should be in some category or judged as something that goes along with applicant knives.
David
 
David. What is put on the judging table will be judged. It is up to the guys. Most dont put it on there. We have actually had guys that failed because of the sheath. The knife was fine but the sheath sucked so most applicants do not take a chance on it. Both JS and MS is doable. The ABS does not put it out of reach and they encourage people to go for the stamps. If you are going good luck at it.
fisk
 
I know quite a few ABS smiths that make great knives, but can't make a sheath to save their lives. These makers supply knives without sheaths or with sheaths made by someone else. I have no problem with that and don't think that sheath making should be a prerequisite to getting a JS or MS stamp.
 
Keith,
I agree, I see the same thing. But, to me it's the total package... If it's a brilliant knife in a cheaply made sheath, I think the maker should be forced to do a better job for his own good. Having an ABS rule, or making it part of the judging would cause more attention to be paid. How many times have you seen a great fixed blade knife for sale with NO sheath at all? Come to find out there's no sheath ever made for it.

All, or most of the nice vintage bowie knives I've seen have sheaths made with a lot of care and attention to detail. Some makers stamp out sloppy work and it makes the knives look bad. Others do great work and it adds to the appeal of the knife. Having it NOT be a requirement is like saying it's not important.
David
 
This might be a little off the subject, but when it comes to Knifemakers who make their own sheaths;Burt Foster's sheaths are about the best out there.That's including custom sheath makers IMHO :cool:
 
There are quite a few top class sheath makers about, so if I buy a piece without a sheath it is not a problem for me - in fact I look forward to picking up a couple of Bowies at Blade, and if there is no sheath I will just wander over to Kenny Rowe or the like and enjoy the process of spec'ing out a fantastic coat of leather. It really makes no difference to me if the knife maker or A.Other makes the sheath as long as it is quality and compliments the knife. I also do not think it is a reflection on the knifemaker if they can or cannot make a good quality sheath.

Stephen
 
a knife without a sheath is like a car without wheels. you keep it at home and usually don't use it. unfortunately, there's no one who can make a nice and sturdy sheath where i live, as far as i know, therefore i don't buy knives without sheaths any more (with just a few exceptions).

so i think a knifemaker should be able to make a proper sheath, at least a abs ms...

i second buddy's opinion: i own four of burt foster's excellent knives and his sheaths are better than anything i have seen so far.

brightred
 
A fixed blade without a sheath is a letter opener.

That said, David, especially in the ABS, the knives themselves are what should be judged. Sheaths are definitely a part of the package, but show very little about a person's understanding of squishing metal, which is what the ABS is rightfully concerned with.

I really prefer that a good sheath comes with a good knife, but I cannot fault a maker for a lack of leatherworking skills. Some have it, some don't does not make them any less of a knifemaker.

Can't stand Kydex for a forged blade, in most cases. My feeling is if the maker does not do adequate leatherwork, a sheath from a decent professional leather worker should be provided. In this we are talking about how that affects the final cost, and is not a reflection of the knifemakers skills.

Nick Wheeler made me a sheath for my Jelly Roll Fighter, and it is as much of a work of art as the knife itself. Don Fogg provided a sheath for the Clouds Bowie that I purchased, and it is VERY basic, and does not do the knife justice. Does that mean that Nick is great, and Don sucks?

Obviously, the answer is heck no. Just for the sake of argument, Ed Fowler makes a very serviceable sheath, but the style leaves me flat as a pancake, and if I owned one of his knives, I would have a "dress" Rowe sheath made for it. Just my .02. YMMV.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I like a sheath with my knives, provided with the knife. Either by the maker or not. I don't think any less of a knifemaker who doesn't make his own sheaths, or makes ones of lower skill than the knife itself, but a fixed blade knife needs a sheath, in my opinion.
I do like getting a "dress sheath" made for the fancier ones sometimes, but especially on a user knife, I want it to come with a sheath.
 
I agree that the knife and sheath are a package and to me the sheath has to be as nice as the knife. Also, I too want my knives to come with sheaths. If the maker doesn't supply one, or doesn't do a good job of making a sheath then I will have the knife sent to Chuck Burrows. He will make me a great sheath and it will be with the knife when I get it.

Some of the best sheaths that I have seen by a knifemaker were made by Steve Filicietti. His knives are (were?) fantastice and his sheaths are every bit as good. By the way, anyone know what ever happened to Steve?
 
Thanks Steve! :)

I think Steve Filicieti and Burt Foster have the leather sheath flat out nailed. They both make beautiful and very serviceable sheaths. Steve has a background involving saddle work... while Burt is just a fantastic maker that works very hard to provide the total package.

I try to get sheaths done for all my knives when I can... but sometimes the show prep time runs out, or the collector specifically asks me NOT to.

Steven and I have discussed this, and he thinks the above notion makes no sense... And while I understand his argument, I also understand that some collectors know the knife will never actually be in the sheath, and simply see it as an added expense.

Back to the ABS testing... I was going to submit some tip and throat sheaths and maybe an all silver sheath with my knives thinking it would be some whiz-bang kinda thing... But then Mr. Mike Williams, Ms pointed out that if you make it perfect then that's great, but it won't add to your pass/fail... However, if you screw it up, it will get you dinged which will work toward a fail.

So even if you've got sheaths for your test knives, there really is zero benefit to putting them in the test room (from what I understand anyway). I could be wrong though.

-Nick-
 
A first rate sheath from a maker is an added bonus that I like to have, but I sure don't have to have it if I otherwise like the knife. As others have mentioned, there is no shortage of quality sheath makers out there who can whip me up exactly what I want.

But this is from the perspective of a collector / knife enthusiast, as opposed to the hunter / outdoorsman / Grizzly Adams / knife user. If I were in the latter category, I might well regard a serviceable sheath as essential.

There are a few makers out there that really turn out a nice sheath - Ed Caffrey, Sean McIntyre and Burt Foster will all provide a sheath for you that is very much the equal of the knife. Russ Andrews has also kiicked up his leather work a notch or three of late. Nick Wheeler's sheaths, while not fancy or ornate, are very well made with the kind of attention to detail evident in his knives.

Roger

Keith - from what I have heard (second hand, mind you) Filicietti hs moved on to some other type of work - custom gun stocks or some such - with no immediate plans to return to bladesmithing. Damn pitty, that.
 
In the "collectible" sense of things, with old knives especially, the sheath is a modest consideration of value. Knives sold in "unoriginal" sheaths..old Marbles knives, Morseth, or Randall knives are always cut down in price. I watched a Marbles 8" ideal sell last year for $16,000 it had a sheath with cat-tails carved into the leather. If the sheath wasn't original, I doubt it would have come anywhere close to that price. That's what I wonder about knife makers who have sheaths made for them instead of doing the work themselves.. does it hurt the "authentic" or "genuine" appeal compared to knives which are defined by sole authorship. I guess arguments could be made, especially with engravings.. but a maker's sheath work is a "distinction" of his work- whether it's good or bad, or neither.
David
 
Crazy that there is only to lose and nothing to gain by submitting a sheath for an ABS test. But it's a nutty world we have... :rolleyes:

Aside from this, I just counted, and I have 31 custom fixed blade knives. Of these, 11 of them have no sheaths. Daggers, art knives, med bowies--none of them meant to be actually carried. ('Meant' is the operative word. Just as they aren't meant to be used, I and all others demand a hardened blade and a really sharp edge.)

Nick Wheeler said:
I also understand that some collectors know the knife will never actually be in the sheath, and simply see it as an added expense.
Click to expand...
True, and honest. Sheaths are actually a hindrance in collecting mint knives. They are fragile and you can't store the knives in them for fear of discoloring blades and materials. But, that said, it's a surmountable 'problem'. Like most everyone, I like it when a knife has a well-fitted sheath. But I don't view those in my collection as incomplete without one.

I have a new knife upcoming from a prominent forger. He was simply too busy to make me a scabbard at this time. I might chase it out to another--or I might not. It's an additional cost that will only be justified in my need to fulfill the package, or for resale, if at all.

Coop
 
I tend to side with Coop. I find a sheath to actually be a PITA sometimes. Just one more thing to maintain and I also don't care for the look of a knife being displayed along side the sheath.

The exception being some knives like a reproduction or interpretation of a classic California bowie where the knife was typically sold with a sheath. To me, anything less than a silver sheath would somehow lessen the appeal of the whole knife.
 
I prefer to have a quality sheath made by the maker, but I'd rather have a Kenny Rowe sheath than a poorly done sheath by the knifemaker.

Also, I just want to mention Larry Fuegen, who, in my opinion, is unsurpassed as a sheathmaker among knifemakers.

Here's just one example of his work, taken from his website
P5.jpg
 
Yup, that is a perfecto example of a combination of knife and sheath that exceeds the sum.

Kudos to Larry Fuegen. Wow.

Coop
 
I think that if the knife is meant to carry that it should come with a sheath. Most expensive collrctor knives will never be in a sheath. Most of the more expensive knives I own don't have sheaths. As stated above many of the very top makers don't do sheaths, but do exceptional knives. But sometimes on a superior knife the sheath is definitely part of the total package. A Bill Moran or Jay Hendrickson Bowie without the wood lined, leather covered embellished sheath doen't seem complete. Some of these sheaths are works of art own there own.
Jim Treacy
 
I don't know how I forgot to mention Larry!!!! Fuegan's sheaths are just as much a work of art as his knives. And that is saying a LOT!!!

Now I'm sitting here wondering how many others I should have mentioned!

Thanks for the pic Derrick :)

-Nick-
 
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