Abuse

Fiddleback

Knifemaker
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Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Oct 19, 2005
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Guys, batonning a knife with a rock is abuse. I do not, and I can not make knives that stand up to these type of shenanigans.

The bad news: I got a knife back this week with a broken tip. It was bought on the used market and the end user was batonning it correctly at the time of the break as far as I can tell. The spine of this knife has been beaten with a rock, and as it happens, one of the divots knocked into the steel by the rock created the stress riser that caused the break.

The good news: The grain looks great on this piece. The HT checks out great. There are no gaps between the handle scales and the steel. The knife is nice and sharp.

I am replacing this knife because I appreciated the end customer's honesty in this situation and I hate to see him out of luck because of someone elses buffoonery.

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thats crazy.....i wonder what the thought process was (or lack there of one)....

the original owner could be one of the guys in my shop....he was going to put a HSprecison stock on a belt sander because he didnt like the palm swell
 
I got one in from a customer recently where the previous owner had taken the handle to a grinder to change the size and shape of it. Then, they sold the knife without disclosing this. The end customer was upset at my QC standards and thought I should know this was shotty work. I fixed the knife and sent it back.
 
I'd probably freeze to death before taking a rock to one of my Fiddlebacks :barf: That knife could have been an heirloom given the most basic of care (lack of abuse)
 
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Ouch!! That's a nasty break. Thanks for the pictures. That grain structure does look good. What's going to happen to that knife? It looks as though there is still plenty of life left in it.
 
The grain does look good from what I can see.;)
 
Thats a bummer; Andy you really go the extra mile for your customers though! Knife was clearly abused, AND it was not the original owner, and you STILL replaced it? You can't beat that for a guarantee!
 
All that needs is a "Carver" model tip regrind (drastic wharnie point) and a spine smooth and shine and it's good for another (hopefully more responsible) owner.
 
Yup - I was looking at that and thinking it's make a great sheepsfoot pattern at this point.
 
Not really sure what to make of someone pounding on the spine of a knife with a rock. It's pretty crappy though, that the individual who did so would try to pawn off his now damaged and potentially flawed knife to somebody else without disclosing what had been done to it. It is more than generous of you to replace the second owner's knife and your compassion for his circumstance is admirable. I'm not surprised though, since all of my experiences with you have demonstrated your utmost concern for the satisfaction of your customers above all else.
 
Why someone would hammer on a knife with a rock is beyond me, it's disgusting and shows a complete lack of respect for their tools. It's this kind of human stupidity that keeps me away from purchasing knives second hand. I am amazed by the way you stand behing your products though Andy, I am hoping to pick up a knife this Friday.
 
Not really sure what to make of someone pounding on the spine of a knife with a rock. It's pretty crappy though, that the individual who did so would try to pawn off his now damaged and potentially flawed knife to somebody else without disclosing what had been done to it. It is more than generous of you to replace the second owner's knife and your compassion for his circumstance is admirable. I'm not surprised though, since all of my experiences with you have demonstrated your utmost concern for the satisfaction of your customers above all else.

Well...in an actual survival situation, circumstances can occur that necessitate striking a knife with whatever is at hand. They can range from needing to chisel through ice to access water, having only very large pieces of driftwood handy on small island or rocky sand bar and possessing only a small knife to work with after a cold weather boating accident, to making an air hole in whatever material if trapped and suffocating after an urban environment disaster. Yes it would Preferably and hopefully something a good bit softer than the tool being struck. But when life or health is at stake, you do what you must with what you have. I teach some extreme techniques in some classes, so I can see someone wanting to experiment and test these techniques in real time under controlled circumstances, I certainly have at my own expense. Depending on your preferred reading material you may get to see a couple of such techniques ( some not talked about here) in the coming months. What bothers me in this instance is the lack of honor. That someone has done such experimentation, but doesn't want to pay the price for the knowledge gained, and screws someone else over to recover their expenses. I like to think that Karma bites such people on the ass particularly hard. I am a firm believer in that once I buy a knife, then it is mine to do with as I will. However I also understand the concept of reasonable expectation, and know full well that some of the techniques I use at times are beyond the realm of it. I occasionally break knives in my quest for knowledge, but usually in abusive tasks and the makers never learn of it. The commonality of "hey I can do whatever I want, and then I'll screw someone else to recoup my expenses" is one of the reasons I am just not a big people-person.
 
This isn't the first tie I've faced this guys. It is one of the reasons that I have begun chamfering my spines. The other is that quality knife connoisseurs demand it. But if that knife had a chamfered, rather than rounded spine, the divot that caused the break would not have hit a sharp edge, and possibly would not have caused the stress riser in the first place. Still stupid to hit a knife with a rock.

What kind of survival situation would make you want to hit your knife with a rock? Dozens of dumb decisions all piled up in a row is the only way it makes any sense. End the day with a broken knife, and your outlook, and your spirits, and your chances of making it are where? In a hurry to pound your knife through ice? Whoa. Dead guy soon.

If you want to do this, buy a Busse and have a field day. I make cutters. Please don't hit them with rocks.
 
That is some great customer service on your part Andy. Either there was a lot of alcohol or ignorance involved on the original user's part. Or both. You would think the original user would have at least wrapped the rock with clothing or some natural shock absorber before smacking it against such a nice knife.
 
This isn't the first tie I've faced this guys. It is one of the reasons that I have begun chamfering my spines. The other is that quality knife connoisseurs demand it. But if that knife had a chamfered, rather than rounded spine, the divot that caused the break would not have hit a sharp edge, and possibly would not have caused the stress riser in the first place. Still stupid to hit a knife with a rock.

What kind of survival situation would make you want to hit your knife with a rock? Dozens of dumb decisions all piled up in a row is the only way it makes any sense. End the day with a broken knife, and your outlook, and your spirits, and your chances of making it are where? In a hurry to pound your knife through ice? Whoa. Dead guy soon.

If you want to do this, buy a Busse and have a field day. I make cutters. Please don't hit them with rocks.

LOL, I never said anything about being in any hurry to strike any knife with a rock man. Striking any hardened piece of steel with a hard object is a always risky venture, and striking a beautifully made and expensive one is a depressing thought. I never said the circumstances were common place, and never said it that it would have been intelligent decision making that led to such circumstances...just that from my own experiences and subsequent studies, that I could see them as possibly happening. Many unexpected events can impact our lives along the way. We are never the masters of our own fates, anyone who honestly believes otherwise is simply living a delusion. For me this lesson was extremely poignant, and came at a very early age when I went to sleep one night in my usual reality after a very typical day as a high school freshman, only to be awakened later by loud pops, muzzle flashes, debris flying at me from my nightstand, bloodstained walls, and the sudden unwanted need to first evade, and then to kill my own stepfather. The same man I had sat across the dinner table from and talked to every evening for the last several years, and whom I had gone hunting, fishing, and camping with on many occasions. Then shortly after found myself all alone in a very big and very confusing world. The next four years till adulthood was a long series of strange events and bad circumstances, admittedly mostly due to poor and uninformed decision making. Yes the bumper sticker tells the truth, shit does indeed happen.

You definitely make beautiful, high-quality knives, that are excellent cutters and gorgeous pieces of highly functional art Andy. I would consider striking any one of them with anything other than the side of my palm or a small stick to the spine a crime all its own. There are multiple reasons that to this day, regardless of the primary blade I carry, I never head out without one knife, even if it is just a small one... a TOPS, a RAT, a Becker... whatever, that didn't cost a lot and that I am perfectly comfortable with doing anything at all with. Isn't that what beaters are for? At this point in my life, for a list of reasons I won't bother to type, if I ever find myself in a situation that includes striking one of your beautiful pieces of cutlery with a rock or other hard object, I will make every effort to minimize the damage done and neither you nor anyone else will ever know about it, I give you my word :)
 
I'm kinda leaning towards Mist's POV. You never know what life is going to throw at you. Extreme conditions call for extreme measures. But, if in practicing a "do what you have to do" situation means testing your knife with hard blows from a rock, well the knife owner should man up and take the loss. The original owner lacked some integrity and some common sense for that matter. I think his moral compass may be off a few degrees too.

With that said, I really respect the way you honor your pieces Andy. It's nice to know that when you buy a Fiddleback, you're buying a fully functional piece of art/tool and the artist, stands by and honors his art and customers, whether they're the original owner or not. This is what "Made in the USA" is all about IMHO.
 
Interesting. I had wondered why the edges on my Recluse were chamfered, but not on the older Bushfinger.

I'm fine if someone wants to test their knives through extreme circumstances as long as they're willing to eat the decrease in value and disclose all abuse to any subsequent owner. I hope the end customer here tried to recoup some of their money from the person who sold them the knife.
 
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