Abusive testing: value?

i have not seen that video yet! do they do something outragest to destroy it? sometimes i don't care to see someone go out and abuse a good knife for no good reason at all. i have never handled a Busse before, so i don't know how strongly built they are. but from what i've seen of pictures of them, they seem to buit strong and are reasonably costly! to take something of the value of any knife and go out of your way to destroy it,just doesn't seem right. "almost like killing a mocking bird" that's the way i feel. :)
 
While the Battle Mistress, and Busse knives in general, might very well be the archetypical definition of "tough knife", those tests offer no substantive or replicable results. All they are good for is, for some, a little entertainment and perhaps to help a person who is looking for a bomb proof knife. For those looking for knives that are meant first and foremost to cut, carve, etc., they are worthless and, even worse, create false expectations in the minds of the more easily swayable newcomers as to what any given knife should be capable of doing.

I assume that any quality maker with the ability to experiment with and manipulate the HT protocol would be able to match all, or at least most, of those results. Except perhaps the near stainless qualities of INFI while still retaining its other desireable features. That one is a real headscratcher I think.
 
roughedges said:
...

I assume that any quality maker with the ability to experiment with and manipulate the HT protocol would be able to match all, or at least most, of those results...
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I think so to. So let the "abusive" tests begin and show those that cannot "match all, or at least most, of those results".
 
orthogonal1 said:
I think so to. So let the "abusive" tests begin and show those that cannot "match all, or at least most, of those results".
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For the record, I really like the Battle Mistress. I highly regret selling mine.

I think you missed my point in this regard. Not all knives should be able to match the results of the BM in those "tests". If they did, we'd live in a knife world that was exceedingly boring. Further, not all makers should make knives that can mirror the same results. To think otherwise is ludicrous and demonstrates fundamental lack of reasoning in my opinion. Different knives, different uses. Different designs, different abilities (and constraints). Different steels, different abilities (and constraints). Etc. Etc. The problem with those "tests" is that there are so many fools who come along who seem to automatically assume that any "results" less than stellar somehow must imply a problem with the knife being "tested".
 
markksr said:
Well if the shoe fits, light somebody on fire and kick them in the nuts with it. ;)


Err... Wait... What?


PS- For the record, I didn't mean to imply that you were a fool.
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I figured. Just seemed like this thread could be the foolishness you referred to as much as that knifetest site itself. :)
 
roughedges said:
For the record, I really like the Battle Mistress. I highly regret selling mine.

I think you missed my point in this regard. Not all knives should be able to match the results of the BM in those "tests"...
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Didn't miss the point at all.

If the criteria is such that the BM is considered near ideal, then it is good to see how other knives compare to such an ideal in similar tests perform. I see no reason why other knives of various steels cannot be made to come at least close to performing as good as a BM. What, is there some kind of Devil's Pact involved?

If one choses a different set of criteria that determine the "ideal", say the least resistance after cutting through 500 linear feet of corrugated cardboard, than all knives should be similarly tested to see which is a good performer.

Tests are subjective, at the very least in regards to the test being performed, just as it is subjective as to what makes a "good performer" in tests.

No one has the time to test a knife under all the possible criteria that can be envisioned. Decide on your tests and test away.

Different knife designs, due to metal choice, heat treat, and shapes will perform at different levels no matter what the test. That is simply self evident.



And, I think, there are too many who make the assumption that any discussion of "abusive" testing must be discussing "knifetests". Some people consider batoning any knife as "abusive" ("that is what axes are for, fool" comes to mind).

I put a bit of import on the strength and reliability of the lock on a folding knife. At the moment it appears that the Triad-Lock may be the "ideal" in a production folder as knives with the lock seem hold under an "abusive" amount of force - but the designs of the knives with the lock, though pretty interesting to me, are not what I like to carry as an EDC. We make out choices. Still, I'd like to know, actually see, how some of the knives I do carry compare and would welcome some "abusive" testing of other commonly available knives and their respective locks.

And, no, I have no patience with the rather stupid "folding knives are meant to fold" BS, nor the copout concerning "repeatability".

On the one hand we buy folding knives with locks to lock open, not lock open some of the time or lock open except when they are used or stressed to close by some small load.

On the other hand, most "testers" are not independently wealthy to allow multiples of a knife to be tested nor do most "testers" have the time/skills to make some sort of contrivance to allow true repeatability (even those that complain about such things don't seem to be able to "do it correctly" - they appear to be just the peanut gallery).

So bring on the "abusive" testing and lets see what the knives can do.
 
2knife said:
The Busse Battle Mistress in these videos showed to be nearly indestructable. I'm not saying it is the end-all, be-all of testing procedures, or even what constitutes "testing". I found it showed what one guy could dish out to tear up a blade. And, i was very impressed how it held up.

How did that blade survive so well?

Tip seemed impervious to any deformation, cutting edge never chipped out - hammered through various extreme mediums..

The knives for cutting competition choppers, such as Blade Show often fail, miserably so by compare - a few years ago I saw many of the "best" custom knives fail at an event where the tips were broken, due to being accidentally stabbed into the glass wall of a small aquarium. What is that saying?
David
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The Battle mistress survived in part because its thick. That particular model could have been from 1/4" to nearly 3/8" thick, depending on the variant tested. The steel used is also tough. I think the posted composition of INFI has a carbon content around 0.5% by weight. Shock resisting steels for pneumatic hammers and such have similar carbon content.

Abusive testing has its place for each type of knife. What is abusive for one knife is intended work for another. For a caping or skinning knife, cutting wood for tent stakes might be considered abusive. Batoning is indeed abusive to some designs, especially folders. My home made shop/kitchen (depending on my mood) knife got the point drop test a couple of times to see if it would hold up to being dropped on concrete without needing a new tip ground each time. I dont drop stuff in the kitchen often, but the shop can be a different story. The intended use of the knife must be kept in mind, and then, if the user wants, increasingly severe work can be done to see if the knife can handle it. In the case of the Battle Mistress, on the abusive side, I think the maker intends it to handle anything that can be thrown at a knife, which it appears is almost the case. I'd say caping is out, as is fine mincing and dicing.
 
2knife said:
The Busse Battle Mistress in these videos showed to be nearly indestructable. I'm not saying it is the end-all, be-all of testing procedures, or even what constitutes "testing". I found it showed what one guy could dish out to tear up a blade. And, i was very impressed how it held up.

How did that blade survive so well?

Tip seemed impervious to any deformation, cutting edge never chipped out - hammered through various extreme mediums..

The knives for cutting competition choppers, such as Blade Show often fail, miserably so by compare - a few years ago I saw many of the "best" custom knives fail at an event where the tips were broken, due to being accidentally stabbed into the glass wall of a small aquarium. What is that saying?
David
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INFI doesn't chip out as easy as other steels, what happens is it rolls alittle until it hits a certian point then it just stays there holding on. While other steels will chip or tear out INFI will just dent a little.

The FFBM that was used in the Video is .30" Thick.

All the FBM's are extremely tough, breaking one is nearly impossible as was shown in the video. That knife when through more than any knife would ever be called on to do. FBM's are bomb proof knives.
 
2knife said:
Thanks me2. It appears that Busse may have few rivals as this "pneumatic hammer" knife.
Do many knifemakers pay attention to these type "use-em bruise em"
video presentations? I get the feeling, no.
David
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There are only 3 that I know of, Busse, Strider and Cold Steel. ;)

Also ScrapYard and Swamp Rat.... Bussekins.... :)
 
2knife said:
Thanks Ankerson, I am inclined to believe it..
David
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Here you go, this is the new Bushwacker Mistress that I tested, notice the flex. It's 3/16" thick and it will take a real pounding. :)







THickness comparison, BWM on the left, FBM on the right.
 
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