Acceptable Ti thickness tolerance

Varga Knives

Varga Knives

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Aug 12, 2006
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My second order of Titanium sheet came in at a very consistent 5 thousandths (.047 vs .052) less than indicated on the label. I know that's a small amount but I was already on the thin side of the thickness I really wanted and .005 in the knife world can sometimes seem big. The question is is that an acceptable tolerance for you guys?

Thanks,
Mark
 
Was it sold to you as a thickness with a tolerance? I would consider anything within that tolerance to be acceptable. If there wasn't a tolerance stated I would ask the seller for a exchange. If they decline, I say find another source.
 
No, no tolerance stated. What Alpha does is measure at various points and mark it as the thinnest measured amount. I cut it before I measured it so they will not take it back. The best they offered was to knock a couple of bucks off a new piece.
 
Ti is a lot stronger than most people think, especially for liners. I'd use it on smaller folders and get some more for larger patterns. After finish work your subject to take a few more thousandths off as it is.
 
Tough situation...Sounds like they should have known it was 0.047 if they measured it before labeling. However, cutting it does leave them in a bit of a situation. Not sure of your application, but if the design allows it I would suggest just accounting for it and using it. If not, consider it a lesson learned and order a new sheet at the discounted price. Maybe you'll find a use for it at a later time.
 
Generally speaking sheet metal gage tolerances run about +or- 10% however most manufactures hold tolerances a lot closer. Here is a chart:
http://www.rolledalloys.com/technical-resources/tolerances/titanium-thickness-tolerances.dot

There are some additional problems when ordering sheet metal:
1. The majority of the people you will buy sheet metal from, buy it by the pound and sell it by the inch or foot, so they want it supplied to them on the low side of the tolerance.
2. The suppliers could be rolling to metric standards or US sheet metal gauge standards. Sometimes leaving the buyer at a disadvantage when trying to buy a specific size.
3. Sheet profile: If you measure a cross sectional strip across the width of a sheet of any sheet metal the thickness can very by .001 to .005 inches. So there will be a difference depending on wether your material was slit or sheared.
 
I have always found Alpha Knife Supply to be a top notch supplier. Was the piece marked with a size and you found it different or did it come to you as a certain size unmarked? I wonder if a piece was cut to complete your order on the spot? I sure know it was not meant to happen.
As far as the size difference unless you had a specific place to use that specific size, I'm sure it will work well for you in that size difference. I've used that .047 and by the time I have got the liners cut out have forgotten about the size change. Frank
 
if it's cut returning would be tough.
however, you could use this as an opportunity to negotiate now a discount on one or more future orders.
 
Thanks guys!

Frank - I will continue to use Alpha but will measure before I cut in the future. Item was listed online at the size I ordered and labeled the same when I received it. The lady I spoke with (I really should remember her name as she is the only one I've ever spoken to over there) says she measures and marks them herself and only uses a micrometer. I told her it was probably mislabeled and she told me my digital calipers were probably off. hmm... less accurate than calipers? Sure, but I cleaned the jaws and zeroed beforehand and got consistent results.

I'm sure it will work out fine in that thickness anyway as I really have no idea what I'm doing and it'll most likely end up as scrap :). Folders are like chess; simple enough to learn the rules but a lifetime to master. Designing a folder has become so problematic for me that it's going to be a big thrill when I do get the whole thing fitted together just how I want it. Anyway, that's another thread entirely.

Thanks.
 
I don't that .005 is enough to complain about for liner thickness, some makers use .040. If you bought material specifically for back spacers and it was that much off then you would have a problem but for liners it's no big deal. Your real concern is making and keeping it flat.

You going the NCCA show in Mystic this weekend?
 
Varga Knives said:
Thanks guys!

Frank - I will continue to use Alpha but will measure before I cut in the future. Item was listed online at the size I ordered and labeled the same when I received it. The lady I spoke with (I really should remember her name as she is the only one I've ever spoken to over there) says she measures and marks them herself and only uses a micrometer. I told her it was probably mislabeled and she told me my digital calipers were probably off. hmm... less accurate than calipers? Sure, but I cleaned the jaws and zeroed beforehand and got consistent results.

I'm sure it will work out fine in that thickness anyway as I really have no idea what I'm doing and it'll most likely end up as scrap :). Folders are like chess; simple enough to learn the rules but a lifetime to master. Designing a folder has become so problematic for me that it's going to be a big thrill when I do get the whole thing fitted together just how I want it. Anyway, that's another thread entirely.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Mark,

Your depiction of events is interesting.

You told Jessica "I want to return titanium that I have already cut. I did not measure the titanium until after I cut it. I wanted thicker material but bought thinner because it was Knifemaker Grade." Jessica explained we do not accept returns on modified materials.

Jessica asked was "How did you measure the titanium?" Your response was "Calipers".

Jessica explained that calipers are not as accurate as a micrometer and you should check the thickness with a micrometer. Your response was "My calipers are sufficient."

She then asked "What are your expectations of me?" Your response was "I don't know."

Jessica offered to hand pick the straightest piece of thicker Standard Grade titanium. You thanked her and asked the price. Jessica explained the price is determined by the size of the sheet and the pieces were $34-$35 dollars.

You asked for a discount because of the situation. Jessica said "I will mark down the price to $30." You responded with "No thanks. I'll go somewhere else." Jessica started to talk and you hung up on her.

--------------------------------

Now I am writing this as Jessica's boss and owner of AKS.

There is never a good excuse to be rude and hang up on someone.

This is the second time in two days you have complained about us.

I don't know if we can satisfy your requirements. I think you will be happier buying your materials from someone else.

Chuck
 
Wow Chuck! While some of what you wrote is true a lot is not. As they say though, there are three sides to every story and I do not want to turn this into a he said - she said. I dealt with Jessica on several occasions and always found her to be a top notch professional and I ABSOLUTELY did not intend to hang up on anyone nor did I say I'll take my business elsewhere. That's not my MO and if Jessica felt I hung up on her then I apologize.

Second time I complained? When was the first? If you can find another time I complained about your business I'll eat my shorts! If you looked at my history the only things I ever had to say about Alpha were all positive.

I started this thread to find out if there was an acceptable variance in Ti tickness orders and not to bash anyone's business. I was actually just answering a direct question and I stand by what I wrote.

If that's not good enough for you then I guess I won't be giving my business where it's not wanted. Sad.
 
Varga Knives said:
My second order of Titanium sheet came in at a very consistent 5 thousandths (.047 vs .052) less than indicated on the label. I know that's a small amount but I was already on the thin side of the thickness I really wanted and .005 in the knife world can sometimes seem big. The question is is that an acceptable tolerance for you guys?

Thanks,
Mark
Click to expand...

That's an acceptable tolerance to me.

It's rolled sheet and that link shows tolerance is right on.
You could always buy thicker and have it ground.



I can't imagine trying to return a shipped perfect item that only costs $35, return shipping would kill that value.

If it's not what you want, I'd put it in my supplies stash for another occasion.

In fact I have bought hundreds of items to "have them in my hands" in person to judge them before I decide to use them.




returning cut material ?
I don't know anyone anywhere that would do that.



Yes, micrometers are more accurate than calipers.
 
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