Accidentally bought a Taylor Schrade...

pinnah said:
Taylor is only doing what numerous other holding companies and supply chain experts have been doing for decades. They up major names and then source production from where ever in the world they can.

In the 80s, I knew a young guy from Brazil whose family was in the shoe business. Somewhere in the later 80s, GW Bass (from Maine) got purchased up and my friend was involved the transfer of the production capabilities out of Maine. Heck, I'm old enough to remember visiting the Abercrombie and Fitch store in NYC with my dad as a kid. Not the same thing I see at the mall (and no, I don't let my kids enter that place).

I can live with replicas and outsourcing. It's obvious by what I wear on a daily basis. I'm wearing a pair of Bass work boots today, as well as a pair of Wrangler jeans and an Arrow sport shirt and a Timex watch. None of them were made in the US and I suspect I'm not alone in this.

The Taylor made Schrades would become instantly more interesting if they moved their Old Timer line back to 1095. I would definitely swallow my nationalistic pride and sign up for a carbon 51OT or 7OT.
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The buying up of venerable old names is very common in the watch industry; for example the new Gruen watches are not the same as our dad's. :(
The discussion jogged my memory, I bought my sons new Schrade Uncle Henry lockbacks with the BSA 100th Anniversary logo on them as collectables. They came in a nice tin, the fit and finish is decent, all around a nice knife for <$30. But they will never be used, instead they'll be displayed as a reminder to my boys of their time in Scouts. Of course my older son hasn't used his engraved Buck 500 either, because he already have enough knives for use.
Being the sons of a knife nut, they have plenty to choose from :D
 
Yes roland, those are the knives I mentioned. A 1946-2011 65th anniversary Jack, sort of arrow head jigged amber bone, grooved bolster, nail nicks both side and bollox shield. Good quality up to RR standards I'd say, possibly better.

Clearly, these come from another factory from the run of the mill junk.

Thanks, Will
 
I just bought 3 of the Stag Walden Anniversary knives , a large trapper and 2 jack knives ( large and small).

I would have been happy if these were of the same quality of Rough Rider knives , but as Roland and Will mentioned , these are a cut above anything I've gotten from RR.

They're very well made , beautiful stag ,excellent quality. The blades are hand finished in satin, not tumbled and are flush with the back-spring when open.
The larger jack is a dead ringer for a GEC Large Jack. Even the inside of the knife is nicely finished.

My only problem with these is that I couldn't find any country of origin stamped anywhere on the knives or on the tins they came in. It's possible these might have originally been packed with an outer cardboard sleeve and removed by the dealer, but the knives themselves are not marked with a country of origin.
If you look at the tang they're marked " Schrade " and then below that "Walden" . Based on the price alone ($17) , I knew these were imports, but someone not knowing might think otherwise. Thinking about it....I don't know where these were made, i'm assuming China, but it could be Pakistan too.
 
JPD1998 said:
I would have been happy if these were of the same quality of Rough Rider knives , but as Roland and Will mentioned , these are a cut above anything I've gotten from RR.

My only problem with these is that I couldn't find any country of origin stamped anywhere on the knives or on the tins they came in. It's possible these might have originally been packed with an outer cardboard sleeve and removed by the dealer, but the knives themselves are not marked with a country of origin.
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Just purchased a Robert Klaas knife from the the 'bay. Advertised as an older knife, advertised as German made and in another reference, Solingen made, I bit. I thought it was an older, medium stockman, a pattern I really like.

When I got the knife, the fit and finish were great, and for a used knife even better. But no markings of origin were on the blade. I was suspicious and started to look around. Found the same knife for $16 from AGR. I paid $13 with shipping so I wasn't really hurt but I was ticked off.

I contacted the seller and she immediately refunded all the money with an apology. It seems that she (an estate liquidator) thought that since Klaas was an old German name and company that if it wasn't marked otherwise it was a real German Klaas knife.

AGR is upfront and even though the knife itself isn't marked, on his website it says in the description the point of origin. I am wondering how many of these unmarked knives will wind up in the hands of folks that are just unsuspecting or let their guard down a bit when buying them. It would be easy to think you are getting something you aren't if the knife isn't clearly marked.

Personally, I think the country of manufacture should be on the knife or any other product we buy.

Robert
 
midnight flyer said:
Personally, I think the country of manufacture should be on the knife or any other product we buy.
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That's what I was thinking too and it should be permanent.
If you look at the tangs of the knives I bought , you would think they were "Schrade" brand made in "Walden" (NY).

A few years ago I bought a nice celluloid sowbelly , the tang was marked "Owl Brand" and "Munich Iron Works". But on one of the blades was a clear removable "China" sticker.
I saw many on the bay with the sticker missing.
 
Okay, so I just took out my accidental Taylor Shrade Minuteman for a second look.

The wafer thin main blade was bent, so I pinched the blade between thumb and index finger and applied slight pressure - about as much as it would take to bend a wire coat hanger.

The blade snapped clean off! This was worse than junk.

I was duped because the description did seem to say "Schrade USA," but I was tricked due to a cleverly omitted comma.
 
buckthorn said:
If Taylor's ethics are so questionable why don't we just boycott all of his products?
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Do not confuse the antics of one seller with what the manufacturer is offering.

This sort of thing has been going on for centuries. The Romans had a saying for it: "caveat emptor" Let the Buyer Beware.
 
But wasn't Taylor the person who bought the Schrade name and is therefore responsible for the deceptive labeling and the poor quality? If I'm confused about this (very possible) please correct me. Thanks.
 
buckthorn said:
But wasn't Taylor the person who bought the Schrade name and is therefore responsible for the deceptive labeling and the poor quality? If I'm confused about this (very possible) please correct me. Thanks.
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I don't think Taylor has misrepresented country of manufacture. It's no secret where they've been producing their products. Some unscrupulous vendors & 'auction site' sellers on the other hand, might not tell the whole truth (if any). Reputable dealers will also indicate country of origin. Knifecenter (BF member dealer) indicates China as the country of origin for the Taylor-Schrades.

The quality, on the other hand, seems to be commensurate with the pricing on most of these knives. As with many less pricey products, sometimes a buyer will get a good one, and other times not. I'm not excusing poor quality, but it is what it is, at that price point. And as mentioned, it's been going on for a long time, from many companies.
 
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But wasn't Taylor the person who bought the Schrade name and is therefore responsible for the deceptive labeling and the poor quality? If I'm confused about this (very possible) please correct me. Thanks.
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We would have to ask Foilist for further details. My interpretation of his posts was that the fine print was in the seller's description, which Taylor LLC did not write.
 
From what i've read Stewart Taylor is a decent man. Some people here have emailed him about how he is using(abusing) the Schrade name and he has replied and explained his side. These inquiries did not go unanswered nor were they passed to a subordinate to deal with.
That said he has replicated many of the standard Old Timer and Uncle Henry knives and the clear tube packaging and even the cardboard insert, right down to it's only in fine print "Taylor". This was early on post 2004 Imperial Schrade closure and since then has been producing "Schrade" and "Schrade Walden" knives that are easy to differentiate from the originals.
The early on OT and UH mimics are intended to deceive and it takes a knowledgeable Schradophile to spot them.
Unethical ? somewhat, but likely a necessity at that time to remain in business.
I am a collector of original Schrade knives but i don't think it is fair to demean Mr. Taylor, a successful U.S. businessman.
roland
 
I have a bit of difficulty reconciling "intended to deceive" and "[somewhat] unethical" with "decent". Why is it unfair to demean someone who encourages practices that deceive people attempting to purchase a particular (authentic) brand of knife for collection or use?
 
I agree all is not pure in the Taylor-Schrade world but i have forgiveness because it is such a challenge to remain in any part of the domestic cutlery business. The manufacturing of Schrade has been lost, but the jobs in marketing, sales, etc. are still in U.S.A. because Mr. Taylor took a chance.
Reality of current times trumps idealism for survival.
roland
 
I disagree, but let's just "agree to disagree" or else we'll be taking this thread way off topic. Thanks for the discussion!
 
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