Advantage of 1095 vs carbide steels?

[Jamesh Bond]

Hmmmm. Wasnt aware of any bad behavior from ESEE. Also thought 52100 was more carbide dense (yes, referring to Cr and V type here). Learned some stuff.

Finding myself more and more reassured that the Rat is the one to get, as figured.

 

[Bigfattyt]

I'd pick the Swamp Rat.

I have 1095 and Swamp rats 52100 (Sr101).

Tough stuff.
should hold an edge longer, and not tough to sharpen.

But the handle will be more contoured. And they have a smashing warranty.

Plus the resale value will be better if you decide to move it on.

 

[me2]

52100 has more carbide than 1095 and they will be mostly iron carbide with chromium dissolved into it, which does make it harder and more wear resistant. Both steels will typically have between 2% and 6% volume of carbides, and it can be adjusted based on heat treatment. If there is any vanadium in them, there will be some VC as well, but 1095 doesn't have any and I don't think 52100 does either, though some sources might have just a tiny bit.

 

[james terrio]

I find the ease-of-sharpening thing to be vastly over-blown. If you're going to prepare for a long day's work or potential survival situation by buying a good knife, for Pete's sake go ahead and buy a small diamond sharpener to keep with it. Problem solved

I haven't tested either of those knives myself. But in 1095 and 52100 blades of my own, both HT'ed by Peter's to 58Rc, I find the 52100 holds an edge a bit better than 1095 without being any harder to sharpen. Frankly, both steels work very well; they're both quite tough and they're both easy to put a very crisp edge on. In a blind challenge, I doubt most users or even makers could honestly tell much difference between them at the same hardness/same geometry in any normal use. Now if you're going to cut hundreds of pieces of cardboard or rope, yeah you'll eventually notice a difference.

Comparing 1095 at 56 to 52100 at 60 is a whole different ballgame. I'd definitely go for the 52100 at 60Rc, unless the other knife was much more comfortable in hand. In a practical sense, with 52100 @ 60Rc you're giving up almost nothing in toughness, but getting a lot better edge-retention.

 

[craytab]

Hmmmm. Wasnt aware of any bad behavior from ESEE. Also thought 52100 was more carbide dense (yes, referring to Cr and V type here). Learned some stuff.

Finding myself more and more reassured that the Rat is the one to get, as figured.

That's because there isn't any. A guy broke his knife by throwing it and then complained about his treatment, IIRC. They replaced his knife under their excellent warranty and called him an idiot for throwing his Esee. They also asked he not buy any of their knives because he is an idiot. Reasonable enough to me.

Some folks don't like the blocky handles of Esee knives. While I have had no problems with my Esee handles, I understand why some people do. The Junglas has by far the most comfortable handle and Esee would be well served to use that handle style on their other knives.

I know this thread is about the steel but for me the biggest difference between an RMD and an Esee 6 would be size and price. I have had a 6 for a couple years now and it has served me well. I just recently got and RMD. The size difference is significant. Until I use the RMD I don't know if I could even consider them in the same size category. The RMD absolutely feels better in hand. If you can spend the extra money on the RMD, that is the way you should go. But for others reading this, it is a significant difference in price once one adds on a quality sheath to the RMD. Not huge but I would say around $100 which is not chump change to most.

Will I get rid of the Esee 6? No way. It is still a fantastic knife!

 

[RX-79G]

There's several RMD kydex sheaths on Ebay for less than $50.

 

[Aias]

I think a RMD is an excellent choice--if I did not have a TGLB (Busse/ infi), I'd surely get one; that said, I use 1095 all the time, and it's great. I have over a dozen GEC's (all 1095) and a couple of Beckers (16, 14) and while their 1095 is a little modified (1095cv) it is more or less the same. All my 1095 is stripped or bare, kept oiled, and sharpened very, very easily. Despite the ease of sharpening, they have good edge holding abilities and are quite tough. Of the knives you mentioned, you really can' go wrong in terms of steel. The seemingly secondary considerations, ergos, handle materials, overall and blade length, as well as blade thickness and grind might be worthy of attention to help narow down the choice. Me, personally, I learned that I prefer un-coated, full flat grinds due to their slicing advantages. 3/16ths thickness is a kind of sweet spot for a 4-4.5 inch fixed for me as well. I also prefer a fair amount of real estate in terms of handle (over 4 inches, actually close to five... then there is the choil/ no choil debate. Sorry if I complicated things!

 

[RX-79G]

I think a RMD is an excellent choice--if I did not have a TGLB (Busse/ infi), I'd surely get one; that said, I use 1095 all the time, and it's great. I have over a dozen GEC's (all 1095) and a couple of Beckers (16, 14) and while their 1095 is a little modified (1095cv) it is more or less the same. All my 1095 is stripped or bare, kept oiled, and sharpened very, very easily. Despite the ease of sharpening, they have good edge holding abilities and are quite tough. Of the knives you mentioned, you really can' go wrong in terms of steel. The seemingly secondary considerations, ergos, handle materials, overall and blade length, as well as blade thickness and grind might be worthy of attention to help narow down the choice. Me, personally, I learned that I prefer un-coated, full flat grinds due to their slicing advantages. 3/16ths thickness is a kind of sweet spot for a 4-4.5 inch fixed for me as well. I also prefer a fair amount of real estate in terms of handle (over 4 inches, actually close to five... then there is the choil/ no choil debate. Sorry if I complicated things!

1095CV/50100B/CarbonV/0170-6/CroVan is not 1095. Chrome and vanadium is not "a pinch of salt". They modify the heat treating quench speed and the carbide formation - much like the ingredients in O1 and 52100 do. 1095CV is most like W7, not 1095.

I wish Kabar had picked another name for this alloy, but I imagine that it seemed better to latch onto the 1095 bandwagon.

 

[craytab]

There's several RMD kydex sheaths on Ebay for less than $50.

Yes, google RMD sheaths and the internet will show results for where to get one. Still costs about $100 more than an Esee 6 no matter how good you are at google.

I would still get the RMD but the Esee 6 is no joke for the price.

The cult of 1095 is a bit ridiculous

I wish Kabar had picked another name for this alloy, but I imagine that it seemed better to latch onto the 1095 bandwagon.

Bandwagon? Cult? Okay then....

 

[RX-79G]

Yes, google RMD sheaths and the internet will show results for where to get one. Still costs about $100 more than an Esee 6 no matter how good you are at google.

I would still get the RMD but the Esee 6 is no joke for the price.






Bandwagon? Cult? Okay then....

You are correct on the price. I had thought you were saying $100 for the sheath.


And yes, 1095 is frequently discussed on this and other boards as something it is not. And other, arguably superior alloys said to be "the same thing" when a few 10th of a percent of alloying ingredients can often have significant effects on the final product. There's a reason 52100 is used for bearings in industry and O1 is not, despite both being low alloy tool steels.

 

[Aias]

1095CV/50100B/CarbonV/0170-6/CroVan is not 1095. Chrome and vanadium is not "a pinch of salt". They modify the heat treating quench speed and the carbide formation - much like the ingredients in O1 and 52100 do. 1095CV is most like W7, not 1095.

I wish Kabar had picked another name for this alloy, but I imagine that it seemed better to latch onto the 1095 bandwagon.

Ok, I'm game; what is W7? Based on my experience, I think it's great! I have to admit though, I've been here a while and I do not recall reading this nugget of info before.

 

[RX-79G]

Ok, I'm game; what is W7? Based on my experience, I think it's great! I have to admit though, I've been here a while and I do not recall reading this nugget of info before.

Aside from the obvious - that it is part of the W series of water quenched steels - I don't have a lot on it. I used to have a link but it is dead. W1 and W2 are more common steels in the series.

W2 is another excellent steel that folks who have worked a lot of carbon steels have great respect for. I don't think the really talented knife makers have anything but respect for 1095, but other steels are the ones the people make careers with.