advantages/instructions for 52100

T

T. J.

Joined
Jul 27, 1999
Messages
228
Gee, it looks like the long sought source for 52100 bar stock may have been found
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Does somebody want to run down a comparison of this to say...5160 and 1084 as far as working qualities, ease of heat treating, finished blade characteristics?

Probably going to be lots of interest in this info soon
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James


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I love my country! I just don't trust my government!
 
I have been playing with it. And from what I know and have seen 52100 is the best for sharpness. It beats everything and almost the best in edge holding. The only stuff I have seen that will beat it in edge holding is some of the cpm stuff and it does it with a lot more brittle blade that is much hard to sharpen.
Now for the heat treat it is very hard to get right, it is very sensitive to over heating in the heattreat. Where other steels if you over heat it a little you have a little bigger grain size in steel but with 52100 it does much worst. The steel is basically ruin.

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-Greg Johnson
ICQ#4236341

 
I tried to forge some, didnt have good luck at all (wanted to air harden on me). As the previos post states, it is very sensitave to over heating. It seems much less "forgiving" than 5160 and the 10 series steels.

Ive heard mixed results from bladesmiths that have tried it, almost seems like a love/hate thing.



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"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"
Thomas Jefferson

 
52100? Now thats something I do know a little bit about. Along with 5160, it has been my primary steel for the last 10 or so years.
Forging: Compaired with 5160 or plain carbon steels, it is "stiff" under the hammer. The best way I have found to forge it is to begin with hight heat, doing the majority of manipulation during the first few heats. The best blades I have produced have always come from starting high, and reducing the temp of each successive heat, finishing with a very dull red. 52100 benifits greatly from multiple normalizing and annealing.
Heat Treating: In a single type quench/temper 52100 cuts extremely well. The problem there lies in the reduced flexibility this method produces. The only method I use on this steel is the multiple quench (edge hardening) in pre-heated oil, followed by multiple tempering at 375 degrees. (400-425 for a single quenched blade) From this alone, a blade with the proper geometry will eaisly pass the ABS tests, and with sub-zero quench........well, let's just say you probably wouldn't believe my results. I believe that if properly made, and multiple quenched, a blade of 52100 will OVERALL out perform anything else out there. I want to clarify that statement by saying that there may be something that will out cut it, something else that might out tough it, and even something else that might out flex it, but for all those characteristics combined in a single blade, along with ease of sharpening, I'm yet to see anything that can match a well made blade of 52100..............Amen. OK, end of sermon.
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http://www.mtn-webtech.com/~caffrey

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Ed Caffrey
"The Montana Bladesmith"




[This message has been edited by Ed Caffrey (edited 23 December 1999).]
 
Well said. I work for a major steel producer that made at least 5 types of 52100 over the last 25 years. Part of the problem is that when using old (recycled) steel you have no way of knowing what you are starting with. C content can range from .8%-1.2% Cr can vary from 1-1.5%. other elements are also widly different and all will affect processing and end result.I can provide a lot more material on this if anyone is intyerested. Thanks Rex
 
Well said Ed. My sentiments exactly. I do a little different on my heat treat than you and I have been using the 52100 from the same batch for two years. The mil. test report shows; C- 0.93%, Mn- 0.3%, Ni- 0.05%, Cr- 1.37%, and Mo- 0.01%. This steel has performed for me very well and it is the steel that I made my test knife for my journeyman smith cutting test. It performed flawlessly. It does seem to have a narrower range of heat for forging. It also requires two normalizing heat and an annealing heat. After I bring the blade up to temp., I will put it in vermiculite until it cools completely. Then profile and drill (use sharp drills) any holes because it seems to work harden easily. It may be a love/hate relationship. I love what it does and I would hate to be without it. There are no short cuts to producing a quality blade when it comes to the heat treat. Ray Kirk http://www.tah-usa.net/raker
 
Rex, I would love to have any information on the 52100 that You might have. You can E-mail me at: raker@tah-usa.net . Thanks for offering. Ray Kirk
 
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