Advertising Hype

Sal Glesser

Sal Glesser

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Dec 27, 1998
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11,652
Hello, sal here. A general discussion forum with no threads is no fun.

There was a thread going on the General Forum regarding sales hype in the knife industry. The question of 440V hype came up which I questioned (because Spyderco is using 440V). I received reply both on the forum and Email from the original post indiscating no harm meant. I wanted to thank that person for taking the time and effort to appreciate that we do try to watch for that.

However, I would have to concur that MOST advertising in MOST industries does make "difficult to believe" claims. It is not just the knife industry. Every one can't be "The Best".

It seems that nowadays, that's what sells product. Those that try to provide honest advertising are often looked on as inferior by many and in doing so lose sales.

Is the loud hype the best?

So how does one offer better designs, materials & craftsmanship and still reach the decision making faculty of the ELU (& Bruce), get their attention, have them believe you and trust that they are really getting what they are paying for?

(keeping in mind that money saved here or there may be paid for later in other ways).

sal
 
Sal,

You keep doing what you are doing buddy. What is important in my book as that you sleep well at night and you can provide a good living for yourself and keep a roof over your head.

Hype is just that, Hype. I know it is hard to look at other's ads knowing that your product is better. It would be a lot of fun proving them wrong but in the end what have you gained? Maybe a few more bucks in sales but how do you feel? Did you do the right thing?

"Integrity is being good even if no one is watching"

Sal we are watching
smile.gif


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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com

 
Sal, ptn here.

I just renewed my interest in folding knives about a month ago. I've always had uses for knives and occasionally buy one or two. About 5 years ago I somehow got on Cold Steel's mailing list. I laughed at the advertising style but bought a Recon Tanto(caught up in a "tactical" fantasy brought on by the fading memory of some knife combat training many years ago) and a Master Hunter, plus a Sjambok which I sold to a friend and covered the shipping costs plus a couple bucks. The Master Hunter turns out to be a decent knife for my yearly deer hunting excursion with my son. It isn't a super knife...just a good value for the money spent. The Tanto remains an anomaly in my accumulation of blades. Anyway, after my wife bought me a Benchmade folder as an inducement to buy her a gold necklace, I got on line and discoverd the forums. I also was given a small Spyderco brochure with the knife my wife bought me. It was very informative and understated..no hype. It presented me with welcome information about blade steel and described your product line quietly and in good taste. I'd seen Spyderco knives around for years and had been unable to warm up to the odd knife profile on most models. After looking in on the forums I discovered the huge respect Spyderco products have in the knife loving world and overcame my initial aesthetic prejudice about the Spyderco "look". I went to my friend's jewelry store (he sells knives too) and bought a Dragonfly which I absolutely adore. (I might mention that my wife adores the necklace as well) It's perfect for my everyday carry needs. The quality of your product becomes more and more obvious with each day's carry and use. You don't need hype. One can't hide a good job any easier than one can hide a bad job. You do good work and you've gained another customer just by doing what you do. I'm about to buy another folding knife just because my interest is aroused. Guess which brand I'm certain to buy? ....my only question is which model. I can see, however, that this is an expensive interest. The BM and Dragonfly cost under a hundred dollars....the necklace was over three hundred....and all that money spent without the influence ot "hyped up" advertising.

keep up the good work, Sal.

sincerely,

Phil
 
Sal,
Just reread my verbose post and realized what I was saying.
In buying the CS products, I demonstrated that I would buy in response to hype, although I contend price was an issue as I purchased factory seconds. (I would not have purchased either were it not for the low price)
I was also saying that I have great appreciation for your more modest style of advertising and a rapidly growing respect for the high quality of your products.
It is not your advertising, however, which has made me your customer, rather, the product itself.
I see the difficulty that you suggest in your post. Losing business because you aren't hawking your product loudly enough may seem like a tough corner to be in but do you really want to lower your product presentation standards? You are a class act right now.
ptn
 
personally, i dont care for the hybe, i find it rather irritating.

if a knife is good, that will show in its use, and will have a lot more weight(with me at least) than what the maker/producer of the knife says about it.

i also value the opinion/review of other people not associated with the comapany producing the knife.

I like to see specs and stats in the advertisements, like the blade/handle material, lengths and thicknesses, type of grind, hardness, etc. things like how far it bends and stuff are okay too.

i like the spyderco adds, they dont boast too much, they are reasonable, and they give usefull info. some of them are kinda cute too
smile.gif


i dont like cold steels advertising, especially the silly little riposte bit in their catalogs, not only is it annoying, it also comes off as rather whiney.

spyderco is doing a good job, i like your knives, and im anxiously awaiting the release of the spyderench(sp)


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AKTI member #A000911
 
Inflated claims on performance and materials always reminds me of military perfomance grading systems (and civil service for that matter, huh Bald1). There is inflation all through out the system. The problem is that any attempt to fix it seems to be met with resistance and doubt.
If Company A were to stop playing the game and Company B continues to play (and successfully, I might add) how do you stop the game. Company A begins to resist and doubt the whole idea.
I do believe that if Company A does stick to his guns he will be come known as being a rock solid company, like Spyderco. But, when the bills need paying (as so many in this industry understand) it will get tough!!

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>)-RadarMan-(<
age:38
Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead.... Vermont Proverb
Click to expand...


 
If anything, Spyderco undersells its knives.Most knife lovers recognize hype for what it is.Occasionally it does mean some improvement is in the offing, but not necessarily.I would hazard a guess that Spyderco's reputation for quality and fair dealing, and good word of mouth sells more knives than its advertising which,by the way,refrains from insulting our intelligence.Keep on informing us of improvements as they happen, and don't be concerned with anything else.

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"To grow older is inevitable.To grow UP is optional."


 
A timely post Sal, in more ways than one.

For me, there is no greater endorsement of a product (knives in this case) than the unsolicited testimony of those who have tested/used the product. Naturally, sometimes there will be a few naysayers, but that is to be expected. Manufacturing perfection is yet to be reached.

Nonetheless, gain the respect of the good folks that people this site and I can think of no greater legacy.

On the other hand, nothing irritates me or turns me off more than the maker/manufacturer or even a dealer blowing smoke up our collective skirts with a thinly veiled attempt to promote their products under the guise of participating in a discussion or offering suggestions. Such folks must think that most of us are blind, and I, for one, would NEVER patronize them.

I think that taking the high road, even if it is the harder road, eventually garners more customer loyalty and respect in the long run.

Take a look at a couple of our most well respected individual makers. Kit Carson and Rob Simonich. (Used purely as examples and there are several others that come to mind.)

You never hear them promoting their own products or styles/techniques, but check the threads and you will see customer after customer singing their praises and going back for more product.

I see the same for manufacturers with integrity, such as Spyderco. (There are others that fit this category as well.)

I know which products I'd rather buy with my hard earned cash.

Sal, thanks for taking the time to address this matter.

Rant mode off.

Blues


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Live Free or Die

 
Who's buying the "hype", as opposed to quality? Probably not many folks on this forum. I'm probably one of the lesser informed people on the forum regarding steels, types of locks (what actually makes them good/bad), handle material, etc. except for what i read here & on rec.knives.

When I go to buy a new knife I'll check with some of the "experts", think out what I want to use it for, do searches for info, etc. and consider myself an informed (not expert) consumer.

I think hype sells mostly to the impulse buyer, and lower quality product hype sells to the un-informed impulse buyer.
 
Hype is by definition excessive in nature. It becomes a game where what you lose far outweighs what you may gain.

The best makers and dealers don't really play the game. Some of those who do may still make good quality knives, but they have lost much in respect and name value.

I can think of one unnamed compnay in particular which has lost much of my business because of the hype. Before I will buy a knife from that company I have to confirm quality and reliability through someone I trust. When you can't believe their advertising, what's left?
 
I can speak from experience about why hype is a real and dangerous issue.

For many years I was a three knife guy: Buck 110, Leatherman, Old-Timer. Then one day while walking through a sporting goods store I saw Cold Steel's video playing. "Wow!" I thought, "I've gotta get me one of those knives! They blow mine away! They blow EVERYBODY'S away!"

When this happened I was one of millions of "newbies" for whom this video was created. AND IT WORKED. Back then I didn't know a Kershaw from a kumquat, or Carbon V from CPM 440V. But I did know what I was seeing on that video tape . . . and it made me an instant believer. Indeed, it took me a long time to move beyond that initial video experience to an understanding of where CS really stands when compared to Spyderco, Busse, Fallkniven, Benchmade, and other good knives.

Hype is a real concern because it reaches the very people who lack the knowledge to recognize it for what it is. No one with real knowledge will be influenced by this stuff, but most of us, at least in several areas, don't have that much knowledge. If I started talking to members of this forum about the differences between high-end trumpets (Lawler, Monette, Blackburn, Schilke, Ackright), and spouted stuff about leadpipe taper equations, node damping, bracing, and gap adjustments, I could make you believe anything - - until you learned the lingo, that is, and, better yet, learned to play the trumpet well. Then you'd ignore all the ads and make up your mind by blowing on trumpets.

It's the same with knives. Hype is dangerous because it deliberately appeals to those who as yet haven't got enough knowledge to realize that they're being had.

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I don't want my children fed or clothed by the state, but I would prefer THAT to their being educated by the state.

[This message has been edited by Uncle Bill (edited 03 October 1999).]
 
another thing about hype and cold steel thats been bugging me for a while.

if their knives are so wonderful and tough and indestructable, then why such a skimpy warranty? only 5 years on their fixed blades and one year on their folders?

if a company is going to put so much hype into something, the least they can do is back it with decent warranty.

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AKTI member #A000911
 
Being brutally honest, I've got to admit that I've been sucked in by hype a few times. But! If the product doesn't match the hype, not only has that company lost any chance of my future business, but I will go out of my way to let family, friends, and coworkers know who ripped me off.

Sal, your products and service are the best advertising there is. Quality will always win in the end. Keep it up and your loyal fan club will continue to spread the gospel.

Thanks for great matter separators!
Chris Smith
 
Interesting thread -- I have a few scattered responses:

1) Uncle Bill: bulls-eye, as usual!

2) Sal: ditto prior sentiments -- although hype may hook us all first time round, it can't sustain anyone's interest, and doesn't earn loyalty. Spyderco's understatement speaks louder than hype in the long run, and sets the ethical standard by which all others are eventually measured.

3) Sal again: speaking of "hype" (or maybe just plain old advertising), I never saw any of those 4 TV commercials mentioned on your website. Are they still broadcast, and during what kinds of programming?

4) To be filed under "who shall cast the first stone?": If we're going to be honest, we forumites are also big-time propagators of hype, even if we don't immediately recognize it as such. I'm a "true believer" of the Sebenza, but looking back at some of my praises w/a more objective eye, it reads like hype from a cult member rationalizing a dubious $320 investment. Also, our tendency as a forum "tribe" is to worship the newest steel or lock design that pops into our little world. (I mean, does the Axis *really* render liner locks obsolete? Is the lockback truly all-but-extinct?) Alot of these things do represent real advances, but many of us (me, bigtime) get hooked on the latest fashion before we have the criteria to assess its lasting value.

RE hype, I suppose that's the longwinded way of saying what Walt Kelly's _Pogo_ said succinctly: "We have met the enemy and he is us!"

Glen


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"What's so funny 'bout peace, love, and understanding?" -Elvis Costello
 
Loud hype is not the best, it is just one more of the many ways to get a message across. I'm in the ad business for over 20 years and one of the things that the public doesn't really notice is that a company's ads are a reflection of the owner/management's self.
The CS ads are very competitive. So is LT, as seen by his sparring and 'dead critter'photos in his catalog..Spyderco ads are understated & I'm willing to bet, so is Mr. Glesser.
Once I had a client who wanted a business brochure to look like a bank's annual report. The trouble was that he refinished tubs and tile... See what I'm getting at? He didn't want it to reflect what he is, but what he aspired to be...(I did it his way and he got no business from it)
So instead of bashing CS' ads, take the product for what it is worth.
Afterall, the best advertising is word of mouth.
That is the beauty of this forum, I have had so much new input in the last few weeks, I can't wait to spend some more money...get ready Mr. Dozier I'm coming!
 
Hmm, I guess I've fallen off the Cold Steel "Special Projects" mailing list; used to get their catalogs -- they were good for a laugh (or maybe a cringe, as Lynn talked in glowing terms about all the people you could eviscerate with xyz knife), but they rarely, if ever, caused me to spend any money.

The most expensive (for me) ads I've seen, directed towards knife enthusiasts, where the ones Spyderco used to run with ten or twenty knives nicely arrayed on the page, many of which were "just out" or "almost out" models -- reading the ad typically went like this: "got it, got it, skip it, want it, skip it, got it, MUST HAVE THIS ONE (where's my car keys?)"
smile.gif
.

I'd love to see more ads like that. Even better, if some of the knife pictures were sacrificed in order to include some descriptive/educational text on the page, like model names/lengths/materials next to the pics, and maybe a few paragrahs at the bottom, from you, echoing some of the well reasoned and eloquent posts you've made here on the forum about why you believe your knives to be at the forefront of production knives -- sort of your antidote to the hype. I suspect this may be quite persuasive, that is, if there are any smart knife enthusiasts left who have yet to discover bladeforums.com.

I guess there are basically two types of ads needed in this industry: one to encourage knife enthusiasts to choose your knives over (or in addition to) those of another manufacturer, and another type of ad to enlighten people who have yet to discover the "joys of cutlery", suggesting to them the benefits of carrying a knife (the latter could run in non-knife publications).

I've mentioned my favorite of the first type, above; for the second type, the best ad I've ever seen for non-knife people was the Benchmade one, for the Ascent, with a rock climber hanging from the underside of a large rock outcropping, halfway up a mountain. I don't remember any of the text in the ad, but the message behind the image remains crystal clear: sometimes you might need to cut something, and not be able to spare two hands to open a knife or multitool. And it doesn't hurt to couch the message in a popular, exciting activity that the target audience may either have participated in, or (more likely) at least fancied themselves as doing (the same way that a lot of trucks/SUVs have been sold to people who want to think of themselves as "rough and ready", but who never drive outside of suburbia).

For a really terrific "thinking man's argument" in favor of carrying a knife, I direct you to the first paragraph of Jim Mattis' ChaiCutlery homepage. Go read it. This, really, embodies the reasons why I carry knives, much more eloquently than I could state. Not for defense, not because I regularly have to chop wood or skin game (or fight off freehanging manila rope), but to follow the Boy Scout motto, "be prepared". Maybe you can work a deal with Mr. Mattis to quote this text on ads aimed towards future knife carrying people...

... and Either type of ad might benefit from having a link to BladeForums at the bottom.

Just my $0.02
-- Carl
 
I thought about starting a thread like this after reading Sal's reply in the last "hype" thread. Spyderco doesn't hype their knives, which is a good long-term marketing strategy and refreshingly honest. The average person who is willing to spend around $100 on a knife is likely to have done at least some research on what he's buying. A person that buys a couple of knives a year is likely to be a fairly sophisticated consumer who will be turned off by hype. A company that uses wild claims for their products can lure in unfamiliar first-time buyers, but people who are really interested in the product (and spend the most money) will not be swayed by hype.
 
In regards to how to promote your knives, the problem as many have pointed out is that if one person is overstating their performance and you don't then you just come off as having an inferior product. The solution seems obvious, make a statement "XXX is lying, we are not.". However that would cause far more trouble than eliminate any problems.

One obviously line that I always look for when reading any promotion is can I duplicate what is being described. If I can't then I don't pay any attention to it all it, its value is zero. So basically describe what your knives can do and encourage people to verify this themselves. This will set you far apart from those that spread hype.

-Cliff

 
Sal,

"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
"But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." (Matthew 7:12-14, Holy Bible)

Not preaching, but just to relate: It's easy to hype so the 'uninformed buyer' will spend their money on your product. And many do just that. And that makes it tough not to do the same. But the 'narrow road' of unhyped quality and integrity will sell more in the long run, and be the best way to go. It's tougher to walk, but a much 'better' way to go.

My brother (not a knifeknut) decided to buy a 'one-hand opener', without asking me first. He bought it from a company that doesn't claim to make the 'best' knife out there, but which has always stood behind their products and given a great warranty. He likes it and it works well for him. What's my point? The hype doesn't get all of the uninformed; it just seems that way sometimes.

Spyderco doesn't need hype. It's got quality that lasts. And the 'word of mouth' advertising is some of the best kind you can get. And that's what you have because of your integrity and the products quality. Don't bring yourself down to their level. As someone already pointed out: you're a class act! Stay on the "narrow road"; it leads to (the continued) "life" of your company. As old as the words of the Bible are, we can still learn from them and prosper when we follow their advice.

Forget the hype. You've got something better: integrity and quality.


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Cutting through all the muck,
we get to what's really important.

John 3:3-7

God Bless You!
 
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