advice on brass rod for edge testing and tempil sticks

V

Vulcanite

Joined
Jan 16, 2009
Messages
293
[edited for clarity]

I am going to order some stuff online soon. I will order a little piece of brass rod ford edge deflection testing. What is a good diameter of a rod for this?

Also, was thinking of getting some tempil sticks from the local Airgas. What are good ones to get for finish grinding so as not to affect the temper?

I think you can get them in 25 degree increments all the way up to 2000 degrees. I am also ordering a thermocouple and PID so I can read temperature in the forge so I may not need them for heat treating.

However, I was thinking one might be useful when trying to marquench/temper. Was thinking I could get a 400 degree one for that. How does that sound?

ETA: by "marquench/temper" I really mean using an "interrupted quench" technique to get martempering like results w/o actually using a 400 degree martempering oil.
 
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a 1/4" diameter brass rod should be adequate for testing edge deflection, though I'm not entirely convinced on the merit of this test myself. Others may or may not disagree.

As for tempil sticks for finish grinding, I think it's a wast of time and money. Dunk your blade often (or when it is to hot to hold) and you should never exceed 3-400F.
If you do, your hands are a lot tougher than mine.
 
I THINK that I know what you are asking. Forget tempil sticks unless you are boiling eggs.

You stated that you are going to AirGas. Pick up a 3/16" or 1/4" inch brazing rod. They are usually around 3' long, and even though slightly tougher than brass, you can use them for edge deflection tests. (Not that I am saying that this is the best method of testing)

NOW, If I may be so bold as to offer a tad bit of advice......... Take it for what it is.......... Simply a few words from an old geezer who has been to three world fairs and a goat breeding..........Take a little time to read and read again your message prior to posting. Make sure it makes sense and flows naturally. Sometimes a simple spell-check will do wonders.

Not trying to be ugly, just offering a little something that might help in the future.

Robert
 
For a knifemaker, tempilstiks are something to mess around with when trying to guess high temperature by eye... definately not worth it for tempering or grinding. Most folks don't use them properly, anyway.

The brass rod test is valued by some and dismissed by others. I see it as more of a test of geometry than hardness.

I second Robert and Stacy's sentiments regarding your post.... lol.... brother, it reads as if you were under your bed, typing in the dark, during a home invasion. Ha! Okay, that was meant to be funny but sincere, not mean. I just think that because folks around here usually take the time to formulate a proper answer, it would be nice to see the same care taken in the asking.
 
Rick Marchand said:
I just think that because folks around here usually take the time to formulate a proper answer, it would be nice to see the same care taken in the asking.
Click to expand...

Ladies and Gentlemen, all thread content aside, I will be up all night giving a standing ovation to this singular piece of advice. No insult meant to the OP who I hope will join in, but who else is with me?
 
bladsmth said:
imnut suer whit u R akin?

All taht canbe fund with a search n:
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra
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I think mocking the OP for his lack of a well thought out question along with proper spelling is counter-productive to this forum. I am confident that the OP was sincere with his post and questions.



Robert Dark said:
I
NOW[/B], If I may be so bold as to offer a tad bit of advice......... Take it for what it is.......... Simply a few words from an old geezer who has been to three world fairs and a goat breeding..........Take a little time to read and read again your message prior to posting. Make sure it makes sense and flows naturally. Sometimes a simple spell-check will do wonders.

Not trying to be ugly, just offering a little something that might help in the future.

Robert
Click to expand...



Rick Marchand said:
For a knifemaker, tempilstiks are something to mess around with when trying to guess high temperature by eye... definately not worth it for tempering or grinding. Most folks don't use them properly, anyway.

The brass rod test is valued by some and dismissed by others. I see it as more of a test of geometry than hardness.

I second Robert and Stacy's sentiments regarding your post.... lol.... brother, it reads as if you were under your bed, typing in the dark, during a home invasion. Ha! Okay, that was meant to be funny but sincere, not mean. I just think that because folks around here usually take the time to formulate a proper answer, it would be nice to see the same care taken in the asking.
Click to expand...

All good advice that the OP hopefully heeds next time, if he dares to post again. I do not spend a lot of time posting in shop talk but read daily. I think we should remember that many folks , from all walks of life, have a interest in making knives and come here for advice, encouragement and interacting with like minded people.
 
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Ken... Stacy is just messing with Vulcanite... I think he wants to take him on as an apprentice.:)

If you look at Vulcanite's past posts, most are well written and easily understood. Then there are some.... well... like this one... lol. It seems he gets really eager to get the ball rolling on his inquiry. So much so, that he forgets that folks have to be able to read it.

We've got longstanding, very intelligent and informative members who still look as though they type with their buttcheeks...:rolleyes: We appreciate their input and tend to look past the grammar but there still needs to be a little respect for the folks trying to read it. That's all we meant by it and i'm sure Vulcanite takes it as a gentle ribbing... like it is meant to be.
 
yeah sorry guys,
I was typing on a smart phone, the damn thing is always adding words after words I typed and it is very difficult to edit in a field inside a browser window. I wanted to find out what size of Rod to get so when I got home, to a computer, I would be able to order the right thing. I'll just avoid posting from my phone in the future.

a foot long segment of 1/4" is so cheap I'll just order it anyway while I am getting stuff. I can always use it to pin scales or something.

I'll grab a 450 degree tempil stick for interrupted quenching maybe, and maybe a 1600 degree one for normalizing.
 
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To Ken and the rest of the Guys,
We are trying to deal with a problem here - a TROLL.
He won't answer emails, so the only way to point him out is in the forums. Next step will be banning him. I don't want that to happen if at all preventable. Read the below info and see what you come up with that is different than what I see:


This is a post from Vulcanite three and a half years ago -
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/613106-Please-help-me-get-my-new-shop-set-up-)

These are posts from the same time where he says he has a Wilton 2X42
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-well-as-a-belt-grinder?p=6392986#post6392986
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/613364-What-belts-amp-discs-should-I-stock-up-on
At this point he was posting on six or more topics a day.

Then after a month he disappeared for a year. Then he pops back up discussing firearms and knife fighting and production knives, and.....you get the picture - Still no knives made.

Then he disappears for a year, and 2011 he posts that sooner or later he is going to start making his own knives
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...uot-blade-fightin-bowie?p=9463417#post9463417
He posts over and over that he is looking for this or that kind of knife....and on and on - Still no knives made.

Then he disappears and pops back up in early 2012. He is still "looking" for this and that type of knife (mainly big knives)

By April 2012 he posts that he is finally getting started making big blades
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...des-differential-1075-1085-or-1095-thru-tempe
He is posting all the time How do you do....where can you.....what is the...., all the same stuff as before.

A few months go by, and now he is posting many times a day and asking the same exact questions.
He is building PID controlled forges, buying hydraulic presses,setting up to marquench, ordering five gallon buckets of this oil and bars of that steel,etc.

Here he is going to build a wind tunnel to work in.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...r-Quality-Shop-Safety?p=11160361#post11160361
Today he is building a small wind tunnel dust removal down draft,water cooled, uber spark trap and rolling shop cleaner.

Somewhere along the way his Wilton 2X42 has morphed into an HF 1X30, which he has mounted upside down to make it work better for sharpening his knives........which he still hasn't seemed to make any of.



Still no knives made...or equipment... or anything but "I'm getting ready to start making knives"...." I'm going to build", "I'm going to order"... " I'm going to build"...etc


Go and look at his posting history and tell me if you see anything but a TROLL.
 
Oh... I see. I didn't know of him until recently. I wouldn't agree with him giving advice on knifemaking but asking isn't hurting. More people benefit from question threads than just the OP.
 
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He is enthusiastic and maybe a slow starter at knifemaking.

But he is not a troll.
 
A person who pretends to be building equipment and knives ( but doesn't), changes his story, and asks the same questions every year is trolling in the sense that he is posting extraneous info and mainly wanting to hear his own voice. I also doubt he is really as well versed in knives, guns, and knife fighting as he says he is. The fact that his flurry of posting concurs mainly with summer break and Christmas break is also suspicious.
 
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Well...who moderates the moderators?

Stacey, when I most recently started posting again, and probably in the past, I admit that I was guilty of posting to readily w/o reading sticky's or searching. I have been frustrated it is taking so long and manic. I apologize to you and everyone else for this.

As another poster stated, I am a slow starter. Not that any of that is anyone's business, but in the last few years, I have got engaged, got married, moved, had a baby and I have a job where i am often away from home. Furthermore, I had to sideline knife making for a while so that I spend time/money finishing up some firearms related projects. No one here has a right to set a time table for another.

Have had a Wilton 2x42 for years, I have gradually accumulated others bench top tools including a HF 1x30 mounted upside down on a wood base for sharpening and a arbor press. Currently in the middle of acquiring/assembling the equipment to heat treat 10xx carbon steel.

When I have everything in place to grind, HT and finish simple full tang knives and some sort system to manage dust beyond my shop vac, I will make some. Admittedly, in the past, before I knew better, I thought I was closer to being able to make a knife then I actually was.

Over time the type of steel, handle style and size of knives I was planning on starting with has changed as I have learned. Thanks to the helpful suggestions of many here, I'll start making simpler, smaller knives from Aldo's 1084 and using an engineered quench rather than Goddard's Goop or ATF.

As to your emails:
-You never asked any questions or told me to reply, you just made statements and imperatives.
-If you don't have my email address already I do not want to give it to you by replying to you.
-The first one you told me not give daily updates on my search for a source of HI Quench K. Fair enough.
-In the second email you told me to "stop rambling about my mental musings..." and that "...the things you have posted are just silly prattle, and others are downright crazy ideas."...

...since it is better to capture dust at its point of origin rather than let it spread to be gradually filtered I found a whole house fan cheap on Craig's list & I thought I would make a work station with it behind a bench top. I am in a very small garage so I thought maybe I might put the station on casters and push it off to the side when not in use. If I exhaust it outside I will be forced to open the overhead door and suck in mosquitoes into the garage (which bothers my wife) and cold air in the winter. I posted about it to see if anyone had ideas on how to safely filter dust and sparks w/ a large diameter fan.

I am in fact a real adult trying to (eventually) make knives in my garage. Again, I apologize to all for having been too liberal in asking questions. I really don't want to get an...unpleasant post or email in response to every post I make. Stacy, I would appreciate it if you would leave me alone if I agree to research more/post less. Once I get started in the shop I should have few questions and only occasionally when I try to do something new. Eventually someday I look forward to returning the favor by helping others get started out and I hope it won't have to be in another forum.

PS, I have guns, I participate in some self defense training where we focus on accessing and using training versions of our carry weapons. I am certainly not an expert in knife fighting or guns. Sorry if I gave you that impression.
 
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Ok.........
BTW, you can respond by PM or email through bladeforums, the same way I contacted you.
 
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