Advice on Special Request

J

Jemarsil

Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
3
My goal is to create a blade (perhaps a short sword) for ceremonial purposes using a material other than iron/steel. After doing a fair amount of research I've settled on Silver, although I may fall back on Copper if I can't get my hands on it (or it's much too expensive).

My question is: How do I go about working with it? I have a forge available to me, but it seems like I might be better off creating a mold, liquifying the metal and going that route.

Any advice or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
 
I think you should cast it, unless you have a bar large enough to cold forge. The silver will be quite expensive for a reasonably sized blade.
 
This is a big project in silver. It will cost a lot,too. I would suggest Nickel silver ,aluminum, brass, or titanium. The project should be stock removal.Casting will still require the piece to be filed,ground, and polished. Casting a sword is a major project in itself.

Not to be a spoil sport, but this is one of those things that if you have to ask, you might not be ready to do this.

Stacy
 
I agree with Stacy, this is one of those projects that aren't for beginners, this is a major undertaking with a lot of pitfalls even for experienced makers.

Look for the local blacksmith organization and find a coppersmith.
 
Stacy,

I'm most certainly not ready... I'm in the planning stage. :) Perhaps I'm over thinking things a bit, but the only concrete piece I have at the moment is the design.

My brother and father own a metal distribution company, so I plan to get my materials through them for whatever the whole sale price is... as a result, my first step is going to be figuring up the dimentions to determine how much stock I need (and thus, how much money I need to set aside for the project).

I think I'm going to go ahead and cast it, so it will take a good bit of time for me to shape the mold. After that I'm somewhat at a loss... what's the best way to liquify the metal? I have a forge, and all the tools I'll need for any filing, grinding and polishing (my grandfather was a blacksmith, and if he was still around I'd be asking him these questions), but I'm just not familiar enough the process to get it from stock to liquid to mold... I would think I need a large cast iron pot I can stick in the forge or something... I don't know... I feel a bit shameful having to ask though.
 
Will,

Thank you for the suggestion, I will most definitely try to locate the local blacksmith organization. Unfortunately I just moved into the area (Port Orchard, WA) about three months ago. I will certainly give it a go though. Thanks again.
 
You also use steel. I think that if I were to use silver, I would cast it, but if i were to use copper or bronze I would forge or grind it from barstock.
 
You won't need a forge, you'll need to make a small backyard foundry. Not very hard at all except for crucibles, molds and the potential for molten metal to be spilled on the property and yourself.

www.backyardmetalcasting.com

That's a link the definative (IMHO) backyard foundry people. Probably easiest and cheapest foundry burner to build will be a waste oil burner. I use one as a forge and it gets plenty hot.

You're going to have to:
Mock up metal part of the sword (so you'll need to be able to make on out of wood or some soft metal)
Make a GOOD mold with proper venting and angles to prevent bubbles.
Melt your metals and pour them.
Shape the casting and assemble and finish the sword.

No big deal :D
 
Jemarsil said:
Stacy,

I'm most certainly not ready... I'm in the planning stage. :) Perhaps I'm over thinking things a bit, but the only concrete piece I have at the moment is the design.

My brother and father own a metal distribution company, so I plan to get my materials through them for whatever the whole sale price is... as a result, my first step is going to be figuring up the dimentions to determine how much stock I need (and thus, how much money I need to set aside for the project).

I think I'm going to go ahead and cast it, so it will take a good bit of time for me to shape the mold. After that I'm somewhat at a loss... what's the best way to liquify the metal? I have a forge, and all the tools I'll need for any filing, grinding and polishing (my grandfather was a blacksmith, and if he was still around I'd be asking him these questions), but I'm just not familiar enough the process to get it from stock to liquid to mold... I would think I need a large cast iron pot I can stick in the forge or something... I don't know... I feel a bit shameful having to ask though.
Click to expand...

First question:
how old are you?
Second question:
What experience do you have?
Third question:
what equipment do you have at your disposal?

Stacy is right, try stock removal first using an easy metal like Aluminum bronze, steel, or similar before you waste 4 or so pounds of silver, (unless you happen to have about a thousand dollars to just throw away, in which case I would like some too)
I spend 15-30 hours a week working with sterling silver, I would never dream of telling someone to cast a sword out of it for their first large scale project.

Good luck, listen to folks like Stacy and Will, learn about the properties of whatever metal you choose.

-Page
 
I appreciate your desire, but Page and I can tell you - you are thinking higher than your abilities. Page and I work in silver every day. We both cast regularly (I have for nearly 40 years).I own well over $50,000 in equipment, and I would not be able to cast a sterling sword without adding a considerable amount more. If you want an idea - you will need a small foundry, sand molds,BIG tongs and crucibles, etc. It will set you back many thousands of dollars....plus the thousand to fifteen hundred you will need in silver. And you will have a fairly good chance of a porous casting with a gravity mold. (BTW, you don't melt it in a cast iron pot!) You don't even want to know what it would take to make a proper steam assisted setup for a sword casting !

HOWEVER:
A sterling bar the needed size could be ordered from Hoover and Strong (or another refiner) for less than the cost of the silver to cast with (it takes more silver to allow for the sprues,vents, and the extra to grind off). If you are set on doing this in sterling, that is the way to go. There will still be a lot you don't understand about working and fabricating in silver, but at least you won't have to deal with casting the blank.

I would seriously recommend doing one in bronze. Then if you get it right, and still want to, do one in sterling. A bronze bar will cost far less than silver.

Stacy
 
I have a perspective a little closer to Jemarsil's, being a rank novice, but I have done some casting, and some cold working of softer metals.

I have to say that the advice being given is very very very very good advice for so many reasons both big and small that from the perspective of someone who hasn't yet tried it, may be impossible to even imagine.

I would very very very highly suggest that you start with something similar in the working properties you are going to interface with, and do a test run or five. Work the kinks out of your process, and THEN work on the silver.

The odds that you'll junk a whole bunch of expensive precious metal are just too great to take that chance. No offense, but if it's you're maiden voyage, so to speak, you would be a fool to use sterling.

I have cast exactly three things, and cold forged a couple of fittings out of copper. I am a rank novice, but I have enough experience to tell you that the first few attempts are almost assuredly doomed to failure, and even if not, they are as large a learning experience as all the reading and planning you could possibly do before hand.
 
I helped my brother pour some bronze and aluminum. These guys are right. First you would need a good size forge or oven for the melt. Then you would need a big enoiugh crucible ( a ceramic pot to hold the melt) The metal has to be considerably above melting point to pour well. Then as Stacy mentioned you really need a way to force the metal to fill the mold. Steam works well and some even use centrifugal force ( a sword would be huge for this method) If you don't somehow force it into the mold you will have voids and porosity,
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top