AEB-L and 1084 San Mai

J

Jack Henry

Joined
May 15, 2015
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43
So I have a bar of 1084 and a bar of AEB-L and I want to make a san mai knife. I've never made San Mai before and i don't know if I can even make San Mai from these two steels. Also how would I heat treat it?
 
I would start with 1084 and mild steel first! AEB-L is stainless which means it needs to be basically canister welded to prevent decarb happening between layers. If you have never made san mai before don't try it with stainless first. Also for HT you just HT according to the core steel since thats the only used edge part of the knife anyways.
 
That's darn good advice you got there, although it's surface oxides on the stainless that will get you if you try to weld it like carbon.

When you feel ready though, AEB-L/1084 will work, but do some heavy research about the welding as well as the heat treat. It will take some reading, and it's good to have a working picture of what's involved.

One of those things it's better to search and read, and then ask questions to refine your understanding if necessary.
 
I doubt that would work since both are so much different in heat treat temperature...
 
AEB-L has to be hardened before it's stainless, correct? Since you would be hardening at ~1500°F for the core 1084 steel, the AEBL won't be stainless (or as stainless as it can/should be)?
 
I think that "as stainless as it could be" is pretty accurate. My understanding is that the 400 series stainless steels often used in san mai are similar... hardening for 410 for instance taking place at 1800f and above, which it won't reach when HT'ed for the carbon core. 400 series stainless steels need to be hardened to be as "stainless" as they can possibly be. Nevertheless, use of 400 series stainless is common in SS/carbon san mai.

Austenitic stainless steels won't quench harden, and will be quite stainless as cladding for a hardened carbon core. However, they have their own issues that are undesirable to work with.

If only the perfect steel existed for every application...

When I get the time, it would be interesting to do corrosion resistance testing for an as-welded and ground unhardened AEB-L/CruV san mai blade, one that has a hardened core, and a piece of hardened AEB-L.
 
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Thanks for the reply, Salem. I wasn't sure if I was on the right track or not. I figured the 300 series indeed had their own issues with working as a SS jacket.
 
303 would be preferable. Avoid the grinding issues of 304 and 316 while remaining more corrosion resistant than 400 series.

But I don't know how the sulfur would impact weld quality. Is that maybe why 416 isn't used compared to 410 or 20?
 
Others, such as Karl Andersen, eschew 416 now due to the sulfur content making failure apparently more possible. I have not tried using 416 myself, although it is attractive due to its relatively low cost and common availability. All of the above is why I've been experimenting, and with some success, in using AEB-L as a jacket material.

Pettys in AEB-L/CruForgeV. Visible carbon migration on one, due to annealing soak... a little bit on the other.
16711871_1274069452669128_8256883460730517503_n.jpg


Big ones in 304/52100. Tu-tone high conrast, no carbon migration.
16729142_1273074869435253_2373310715333705509_n.jpg
 
I like that high contrast! I've not done hamons lately as I have been doing mostly kitchen stuff and it's a shame to see all that buffing with 1500grit SC go away to patina. With the San Mai that wouldn't be an issue.
 
That's a big part of the attraction, to me. Like a hamon but more vivid, and stays on there with use. Plus, some added corrosion resistance.
 
Salem Straub said:
Others, such as Karl Andersen, eschew 416 now due to the sulfur content making failure apparently more possible. I have not tried using 416 myself, although it is attractive due to its relatively low cost and common availability. All of the above is why I've been experimenting, and with some success, in using AEB-L as a jacket material.

Pettys in AEB-L/CruForgeV. Visible carbon migration on one, due to annealing soak... a little bit on the other.
16711871_1274069452669128_8256883460730517503_n.jpg


Big ones in 304/52100. Tu-tone high conrast, no carbon migration.
16729142_1273074869435253_2373310715333705509_n.jpg
Click to expand...


Those look really good. :thumbup:
 
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