Affordable diamond guiding systems ?

[Liekme]

Hey all, what are the other options for an affordable diamond guiding system? Reason being is that I have a few steels (S30v, D2, 20cv) to sharpen and I'm afraid my Lansky Deluxe 5-rod system would take me centuries to sharpen these steels. Currently the DMT Aligner Pro Kit is in one of my options, what are other brands which isn't too pricey ?

Also, does DMT sell only the diamond rods ? I googled and only found kits.

Huge thanks.

 

[115Italian]

The lansky guided system has worked for me.

 

[l1ranger]

you can get the diamond stones for the lanksy - they run about 20 bucks each from the factory - might find them cheaper elsewhere

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Hey all, what are the other options for an affordable diamond guiding system? Reason being is that I have a few steels (S30v, D2, 20cv) to sharpen and I'm afraid my Lansky Deluxe 5-rod system would take me centuries to sharpen these steels. Currently the DMT Aligner Pro Kit is in one of my options, what are other brands which isn't too pricey ?

Also, does DMT sell only the diamond rods ? I googled and only found kits.

Huge thanks.

The Lansky WILL be slow, even in diamond, just mainly due to the small size of the hones. Same applies to other similar setups with smallish hones, like the Aligner kits. Stones are narrow, and the sharpening stroke too short; hence the slow pace of grinding. And the setups themselves aren't very conducive to applying a little extra pressure in the heavy grinding stages. If you're already inclined toward a guided setup, try using DMT's Aligner Clamp with a diamond bench stone instead (DMT has videos on the their site demo'ing this usage). BIG increase in working speed, down to maybe 1/3 or 1/4 the time on an 8" bench hone, due to the much, much greater working surface area. It also mimics more closely the correct use of a bench hone and the associated motions in that, which helps train you for freehanding. A bench hone will cost a bit more; but, it's worth the investment. And the clamp itself is very inexpensive.

I originally started doing my serious sharpening with a Lansky kit (actually two; the 5-stone Deluxe kit and then a diamond kit came later). I'd also used a DMT Aligner/Magna-Guide kit with DMT's Dia-Fold hones. When I finally got around to trying the DMT clamp with an 8" DMT Duo-Sharp bench hone (C/F), it cut reprofiling times down from typically 2-6 hours on the Lansky, to maybe 45 minutes - 1 hour for the same types of jobs on the bench hone. That was an eye-opener.


David

 

[Mo2]

Lansky, dmt aligner two affordable diamond systems that will work and are probably the best low cost options. If your looking for better results step up to the kme or edge pro.

 

[Liekme]

Sorry for the late reply guys, have been busy lately.

The lansky guided system has worked for me.

The diamond system or the regular silicon oxide stones ?

you can get the diamond stones for the lanksy - they run about 20 bucks each from the factory - might find them cheaper elsewhere

I see, thanks ! Will have a look.

The Lansky WILL be slow, even in diamond, just mainly due to the small size of the hones. Same applies to other similar setups with smallish hones, like the Aligner kits. Stones are narrow, and the sharpening stroke too short; hence the slow pace of grinding. And the setups themselves aren't very conducive to applying a little extra pressure in the heavy grinding stages. If you're already inclined toward a guided setup, try using DMT's Aligner Clamp with a diamond bench stone instead (DMT has videos on the their site demo'ing this usage). BIG increase in working speed, down to maybe 1/3 or 1/4 the time on an 8" bench hone, due to the much, much greater working surface area. It also mimics more closely the correct use of a bench hone and the associated motions in that, which helps train you for freehanding. A bench hone will cost a bit more; but, it's worth the investment. And the clamp itself is very inexpensive.

I originally started doing my serious sharpening with a Lansky kit (actually two; the 5-stone Deluxe kit and then a diamond kit came later). I'd also used a DMT Aligner/Magna-Guide kit with DMT's Dia-Fold hones. When I finally got around to trying the DMT clamp with an 8" DMT Duo-Sharp bench hone (C/F), it cut reprofiling times down from typically 2-6 hours on the Lansky, to maybe 45-minutes - 1 hour for the same types of jobs on the bench hone. That was an eye-opener.


David

Thanks David, my concern is that I'd have a difficult time during "maintenance" for 20cv steels. Do you think the 1000 grit ceramic hone on the Lansky (yellow) would be able to "touch up" the edge. Not in terms of reprofiling or sharpening from dull, just maintenance.

Lansky, dmt aligner two affordable diamond systems that will work and are probably the best low cost options. If your looking for better results step up to the kme or edge pro.

Thanks. yea, the KME does appeal to me. But sadly the price is a killer. Currently looking at the DMT Aligner as an option.


Thank you very much guys for the information.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Sorry for the late reply guys, have been busy lately.

(...)
Thanks David, my concern is that I'd have a difficult time during "maintenance" for 20cv steels. Do you think the 1000 grit ceramic hone on the Lansky (yellow) would be able to "touch up" the edge. Not in terms of reprofiling or sharpening from dull, just maintenance.
(...)

For a highly wear-resistant steel like 20CV, I'd opt for a Fine diamond hone for touch-ups. Not the same degree of polish as the ceramic 1000, but much better toothy 'bite' in the edge than the ceramic can deliver on such steels. I'm not sure if Lansky has an Extra-Fine diamond hone; if they do, you might consider that one.

The 1000 ceramic (white hone in yellow holder) in the Lansky kit may do OK for a short while after the edge is perfectly sharp (factory-new, or freshly sharpened on diamond hones). But ceramic hones on such steels will eventually tend to falter on them, once the edge becomes just a little bit worn. They have a very tough time cleanly apexing the edge on such steels, once it's not so crisp anymore. The ceramic will tend to burnish/polish the bevels a little more, but won't be able to restore much bite in the edge itself.

If you're wanting to stick with the Lansky setup, other supplementary Lansky hones can be purchased separately. Wouldn't cost you too much to add maybe two diamond hones to your kit for your super steels; one for more aggressive edge repair (Coarse/XC), and one for the light touching-up (Fine). Last time I bought any of these, I think they were in the $15 range apiece, for the Lansky diamond hones.


David

 

[115Italian]

Diamond stone lansky guided system

 

[Liekme]

For a highly wear-resistant steel like 20CV, I'd opt for a Fine diamond hone for touch-ups. Not the same degree of polish as the ceramic 1000, but much better toothy 'bite' in the edge than the ceramic can deliver on such steels. I'm not sure if Lansky has an Extra-Fine diamond hone; if they do, you might consider that one.

The 1000 ceramic (white hone in yellow holder) in the Lansky kit may do OK for a short while after the edge is perfectly sharp (factory-new, or freshly sharpened on diamond hones). But ceramic hones on such steels will eventually tend to falter on them, once the edge becomes just a little bit worn. They have a very tough time cleanly apexing the edge on such steels, once it's not so crisp anymore. The ceramic will tend to burnish/polish the bevels a little more, but won't be able to restore much bite in the edge itself.

If you're wanting to stick with the Lansky setup, other supplementary Lansky hones can be purchased separately. Wouldn't cost you too much to add maybe two diamond hones to your kit for your super steels; one for more aggressive edge repair (Coarse/XC), and one for the light touching-up (Fine). Last time I bought any of these, I think they were in the $15 range apiece, for the Lansky diamond hones.


David

Noted. If only DMT sells just the rod , that'd be amazing lol. Thanks !

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Noted. If only DMT sells just the rod , that'd be amazing lol. Thanks !

The thought occurred to me, DMT does have EF (9 micron/1200-mesh) and EEF (3 micron/8000-mesh) options for use with their Aligner set and Aligner w/Magna-Guide (made for use with Dia-Fold hones). If you're still wanting a clamp & guide set, and you're looking for a higher finish than what Lansky's Fine diamond can offer, that'd be a good direction to look. I have a Magna-Guide setup, with the magnetic rod that holds the Dia-Fold hones (one of mine which is an EF/EEF combo, in two-sided green/tan). I think you can purchase the DMT clamp and Magna-Guide rod as a pair, minus the hones, for not too much money. You could then cherry-pick a Dia-Fold hone or two to use with it (this is what I did). In comparing Lansky and DMT, I also strongly favor the feel and finish left by DMT's diamond hones, over those by Lansky.


David

 

[Liekme]

The thought occurred to me, DMT does have EF (9 micron/1200-mesh) and EEF (3 micron/8000-mesh) options for use with their Aligner set and Aligner w/Magna-Guide (made for use with Dia-Fold hones). If you're still wanting a clamp & guide set, and you're looking for a higher finish than what Lansky's Fine diamond can offer, that'd be a good direction to look. I have a Magna-Guide setup, with the magnetic rod that holds the Dia-Fold hones (one of mine which is an EF/EEF combo, in two-sided green/tan). I think you can purchase the DMT clamp and Magna-Guide rod as a pair, minus the hones, for not too much money. You could then cherry-pick a Dia-Fold hone or two to use with it (this is what I did). In comparing Lansky and DMT, I also strongly favor the feel and finish left by DMT's diamond hones, over those by Lansky.


David

Thanks David for your time and help. Appreciate it alot. I think i'll save up for a DMT Aligner and sell my lansky haha . I've heard Lansky diamond rods dont last long or something

 

[maximus83]

Another new thing to consider. My knife sharpening education continues. I never thought of using that DMT guided device on my large bench stones, and wasn't aware of the videos on their site describing how to do it. As indicated above, I do see there could be some value there as a teaching tool for freehand.

Obsessed with Edges : David, given I'm already "geared up" for freehand and started down that path (thanks in large part to you and others), is there any reason at this point for me to add one of these DMT guided things to assist the freehand learning? Or given where I'm at, is it better off to just stick with freehand and get lots of practice? I'm leaning toward the latter option, but open to this DMT guide if it would make a big difference in learning faster.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Another new thing to consider. My knife sharpening education continues. I never thought of using that DMT guided device on my large bench stones, and wasn't aware of the videos on their site describing how to do it. As indicated above, I do see there could be some value there as a teaching tool for freehand.

Obsessed with Edges : David, given I'm already "geared up" for freehand and started down that path (thanks in large part to you and others), is there any reason at this point for me to add one of these DMT guided things to assist the freehand learning? Or given where I'm at, is it better off to just stick with freehand and get lots of practice? I'm leaning toward the latter option, but open to this DMT guide if it would make a big difference in learning faster.

Do what you think might help. I found more value in using DMT's clamp with a bench stone, because it very closely sets things up to emulate freehanding on bench stones. Don't have to limit yourself to using the other dedicated hones with the Aligner setup, that way. In terms of helping me with freehanding, I didn't get the same value in using the other hand-held hones (Aligner dedicated hones, Dia-Folds) with the guide rod & clamp. Once I started getting more comfortable with some freehand ability, I sort of felt like the other hones, with the clamp & rod, were getting in the way and too restrictive of what I felt was a more natural, intuitive freehand technique.

The clamp itself is not expensive; it's maybe ~$15 or so. You could buy one to try out with a bench stone, and see if it helps you, and you wouldn't have to commit too much $$ in the process. And SOMETIMES, you might wish to put clean-as-possible bevels on a knife, maybe to ensure it looks presentable for sale or whatever. Or you might sharpen a knife for somebody else, for which the appearance of the clean, crisp bevels may be a factor in keeping them happy. In an instance like that, having the clamp handy could help with that. When I was still transitioning into freehand, I also found it helpful to initially reprofile a knife to ideal geometry using the clamp, after which I could more easily maintain it with freehand technique. Clean, symmetrical & perfectly FLAT bevels can be helpful in acquiring the feel for flush contact on the stones, when still learning.


David

 

[maximus83]

The clamp itself is not expensive; it's maybe ~$15 or so. You could buy one to try out with a bench stone, and see if it helps you, and you wouldn't have to commit too much $$ in the process.

David, which of these DMT gadgets are you referring to? Looks like the first one has an extra guide rod with it.

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/DMT-Diafold-Magna-Guide-Sharpening-Accessory-Kit-P573C24.aspx
OR
https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/DMT-Knife-Sharpening-Guide-P11C24.aspx

 

[cbwx34]

... is there any reason at this point for me to add one of these DMT guided things to assist the freehand learning? Or given where I'm at, is it better off to just stick with freehand and get lots of practice? I'm leaning toward the latter option, but open to this DMT guide if it would make a big difference in learning faster.

I'm the opposite of OwE... I think using the DMT clamp with a benchstone, is like riding a bicycle with training wheels. It'll help some, but it's not the same, and at some point you have to take the training wheels off, maybe fall down a couple of times, and then you're on your way. The DMT clamp may be similar, but it's not the same as sharpening freehand. Great, if you're brand new, and have no idea how to do it, but not so much if you already have some idea of the basics.

You already stated in your other thread that you've gotten some decent freehand results... so my .02, stick with it. Adding the DMT clamp... a step backwards IMO.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

David, which of these DMT gadgets are you referring to? Looks like the first one has an extra guide rod with it.

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/DMT-Diafold-Magna-Guide-Sharpening-Accessory-Kit-P573C24.aspx
OR
https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/DMT-Knife-Sharpening-Guide-P11C24.aspx

The 2nd link (just the clamp itself), if using it just with a bench stone. Don't need the guide rod there, because the extended 'arms' on the clamp will ride/slide on whatever table/bench surface you're using, alongside your bench stone.

If you plan to use the Dia-Folds with the clamp, you'll need the Magna-Guide rod/holder for that (1st link).


David

 

[Mo2]

Thanks David for your time and help. Appreciate it alot. I think i'll save up for a DMT Aligner and sell my lansky haha . I've heard Lansky diamond rods dont last long or something

i think alot of novice people use too much pressure and thats probably why they dont last long. this goes with every diamond stone unless you get bonded diamond stones which are embedded in an organic epoxy, which will require pressure to reveal new surface for sharpening once the diamonds get worn.

 

[Mo2]

Gatco also have a Diamond sharpening system. similar system.
here's an example. notice how he's only going one direction?

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

i think alot of novice people use too much pressure and thats probably why they dont last long. this goes with every diamond stone unless you get bonded diamond stones which are embedded in an organic epoxy, which will require pressure to reveal new surface for sharpening once the diamonds get worn.

My own issue with the Lansky diamond hones was a two-part one. First, the small, even tiny, size of them (4" x 1/2") leaves them inherently vulnerable to extra wear. That small diamond surface area has to do a lot more work, spread amongst a lot less abrasive grit. Grinding pace is therefore slower, and my own tendency was to try 'speeding things up' a bit with a little more pressure, which never ends well. I don't know if that contributed to wear as much as it DID contribute to very rapid loading of the hone with swarf. A low-alloy stainless blade could clog up a Coarse/XC hone in a few minutes' time, rendering it unusable. That loading up of swarf was the secondary issue for me, and left me frustrated in using them. The coarser hones seemed more vulnerable to loading, although the medium & fine hones did better and suited my expectations for lighter touch-ups of the edge. I avoided using the XC and Coarse, in favor of using the Medium diamond for jobs that rightfully warranted a coarser hone, only because I didn't want to deal with the excessive loading of the coarser ones. I did use one of my Medium diamond hones a LOT for heavier work, and shortened it's useful life quite a bit. It gave up most of what it had in a reprofiling job on a thick-edged S30V blade.

I subsequently tried DMT's products, and never ran into the same issues with loading, in particular. I also discovered I liked the feedback and finish much better, off of these hones. I've since never looked back.


David

 

[oxig3nc]

My own issue with the Lansky diamond hones was a two-part one. First, the small, even tiny, size of them (4" x 1/2") leaves them inherently vulnerable to extra wear. That small diamond surface area has to do a lot more work, spread amongst a lot less abrasive grit. Grinding pace is therefore slower, and my own tendency was to try 'speeding things up' a bit with a little more pressure, which never ends well. I don't know if that contributed to wear as much as it DID contribute to very rapid loading of the hone with swarf. A low-alloy stainless blade could clog up a Coarse/XC hone in a few minutes' time, rendering it unusable. That loading up of swarf was the secondary issue for me, and left me frustrated in using them. The coarser hones seemed more vulnerable to loading, although the medium & fine hones did better and suited my expectations for lighter touch-ups of the edge. I avoided using the XC and Coarse, in favor of using the Medium diamond for jobs that rightfully warranted a coarser hone, only because I didn't want to deal with the excessive loading of the coarser ones. I did use one of my Medium diamond hones a LOT for heavier work, and shortened it's useful life quite a bit. It gave up most of what it had in a reprofiling job on a thick-edged S30V blade.

I subsequently tried DMT's products, and never ran into the same issues with loading, in particular. I also discovered I liked the feedback and finish much better, off of these hones. I've since never looked back.


David

HI David,

I'm looking into buying my first sharpening system and I can't decide between Lansky Dimond and DMT Dia-Fold Magna Guide Kit. As I understand you had both and recommend the DMT Dia-Fold Magna Guide Kit?