Afghanistan "unconquerable"

.....I don't know, but BEST - I think so. Most of the information I've seen from the Muslim side has been either confusion or rhetoric. People are people, no matter where they are or how they worship, and I have felt all along that there must be a basis for some of the feelings displayed, but the answers just didn't gel. I have been confused by the anger shown to the U.S. by Muslims who denounce the terrorists. You have gone a long way toward clearing that up. It is sure that the U.S. has some fences to mend in the Muslim world. I only hope this thing is finished before it becomes a war between religions, instead of a hunt for the renegades.
 
Originally posted by Bill Martino
I hear the main income in the country is from the poppies they grow for drug conversion and sale. True or no? Anybody been there for first hand info?
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Hi Bill - you're spot on... About 70% or so of the world's heroin supply comes from these lovely muslim fanatics in Afghanistan - the way they figure it its okay flogging heroin to the west because after all, we're only infidels:-) Its a bonus from their point of view because they get to kill us AND make good money out of it at the same time...

Another stage in their 'trade route' to the west is the UAE (united arab emirates) - surprise surprise, its another muslim country:-) One of the sheikh's over there has a few hundred tons of the stuff flying in from Afghanistan every DAY - using ex russian military transport planes... How do I know? I was living/working there a couple of years ago. Don't know where the stuff goes after the UAE but it obviously ends up in the west...

The really funny thing is this - when a foreigner/non-muslim flies into the emirates he can be subjected to a blood test and if they find traces of marijuana in his blood he goes to jail for four years - BUT its okay for the sheikh to move hundreds of tons of heroin every day:-)

Gotta tell ya - I've had the experience of living/working in two muslim countries in my life - Qatar and the UAE - and as far as I'm concerned it was two TOO MANY - won't make the mistake a third time (even if the money was good:-)

Hope this answers the question and gives ya a bit more info Uncle Bill:-)

John.
 
This may be somewhat divergent from the topic at hand. However, I am starting to believe that the whole concept of God is detrimental to the future welfare of the human race. I have always believed in God in my own way. I do not know what it is, nor do I have any proof of it. But I believe nonetheless. My mom is an atheist, and one of the finest peolpe I know (very tolerant of other people, very forgiving, and willing to "live and let live") Neither one of us is better or worse than the other for our own individual belief in the existence/non-existence of God.

However, it appears that the majority of wars/killings throughout history have been because the perpetrators have their own egocentric view of God and are unwilling to tolerate others' views in the existence/non-existence of God.

Now, none of us have any proof that God exists. How can a logical, rational individual become so zelaous over a concept (for which there is no proof, mind you) so as to proceed to kill, maim, ostracize, etc.

I have a good friend who is very intelligent (in some ways) who told me a few years ago that the world has only been around for about 5,500 years, because that is what the Bible says. Mind you, he and I were raised in So. California (the most modern, "Western" thinking atmosphere you can imagine). Yet he refuses to accept science and the fossil record. He turns his back on clear-cut proof that the world has been around a heck of a lot longer than 5,500 years. This position (were it accepted by mainstream society and our leaders) would do nothing but stymie any move forward scientifically, socially, etc. If everyone believed this way, we'd all still be living in the dark ages and believing that the world is flat.

I believe in science, based on proof. But I don't wage war over it.

I also believe in God, based on faith (which is a much more tenuous position than cold-hard proof). I also don't wage war over it. But many have, and still do.

So is the concept of, and belief in, God, good or bad? Will it eventually lead to the downfall of civilization as we know it?

Lastly, I do believe in the here and now. And I believe in an eye for an eye. I am not a pacificist, and I hope that we go overseas and kick the holy hell out of our enemies. There is no more place for blind zealots in this world.
 
Thanks for more enlightenment.

I'll have to agree, Ad, I suspect more people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason. Ironic.
 
.."age old" question - If there really is life on other planets, why haven't they contacted us?

Pflxrz - "What's the take on Earth?

Pfzrst - "Thought we had something at first. They all have religions based on peace, love and forgiveness".

Pflxrz - "Good, sounds like the right set-up for civilization",

Pfzrst - "Nahhh - They keep killing each other to prove who is more peaceful and loving, then forgive each other and start all over again. Another millineum, and the whole dirt-ball will be a desert".

Pflxrz - "That sucks - continue the fly-overs, but don't talk to them. We could catch brain rot, or something".
 
While it is true that perhaps most wars have been conducted in the name of religion, it is not true that religion was the cause. In the past if you needed to motivate a people to conduct a war you did it by means of the beliefs they most cherished. Then it was religion. Now we find other reasons such as democracy, communism, class-struggle, etc. As to the total numbers killed, probably Hilter, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot have killed more in this century than were killed in all previous "religious" wars combined. Not bad.

As for the UAE, etc., let me be the first to agree that these areas and governments are among the most corrupt on earth. That is not because some religion says that it is all right to be corrupt, that is because these people do not follow their religion.

As for the USA, I am American and glad to be. Despite having other options, I am here because I prefer this place to any other. I think we are right to be bombing the Taliban and hope some good comes out of it both for us and for the people there. Oddly, it is our consititutional insistence that the state does not support a given faith that has kept our churches, synagogues, and mosques free to teach the faith they inherited. Most people in the world do not live under such a luxury.
 
Taliesan: thank you sincerely for taking the time and effort to try to educate and enlighten. If I follow you correctly, some of what you said makes a great deal of sense from where I come from.

Your comments on Sufism intrigue me, and at some point I'd like to correspond directly on that.

I find it very suspicious that the Christian reformation/counter-reformation came at a time when the monasteries needed a period when the church leaders were too distracted to pay much attention to them. Especially since out of that period came redevelopment of the spiritual disciplines of the desert fathers - and then the disciplinces and mysticism were far too entrenched in the monasteries to sweep under the rug by the time church leaders had the time to meddle once again.

But then what do I know?
 
Something I think is the bottom of the barrel tactics is the call to all Muslims to unite in the war against the US Satan.
 
Yes, indeed.

The terrorists making that call do so maliciously and on the basis of a number of evil ideas they have. But the demonstrators are for them cannon fodder and I suspect are often basically good people tragically misinformed and misunderstanding. I heard the Bush Administration say recently something about needing to do a better job getting their message more directly to the populations in the region. Once that happens, then we'll be able to separate out the real extremists from those just manipulated.
 
It’s not God that is detrimental to human survival, it’s Religion.

God is the Universal Spiritual Force that is in, and around, everything. God is what defines us a living creatures and part of a spiritual community with no bounds or limits.

Religion is the attempt to define and interact with God by various systems, controls, dogma, and rituals.

These attempts to intellectualize and emotionalize what exists only on the spiritual plane, produce unresolvable conflicts which have been responsible for much of Humanity’s sorrows.
 
Taliesan:
Thank you for a most informative and well written post.
You covered several areas that I had a suspicion were probably correct, but I didn't have the history behind those areas to confirm them, nor the words to say them.

There's more I would like to write, but I can't seem to get my thoughts in order to properly convey my thoughts the way I would like to at the moment.
That's something that's always been very hard for me to do. I am not much of a debator.
I will just say for the moment that being an American Indin my views are often at odds with the predominant society and their politics and religion and their way of dispenseing them to anyone that doesn't fit in their precise little mold.
I am against anyone, individual or nations, who tries to push their politics and/or religion down anothers, individual or nations, throat and not succeeding at that tries to shove it up their arse.
 
Thanks, Taliesan, for a great post. I don't have the first-hand confirmation of all the facts, but it sounds overall spot-on.

Yvsa sez:
I am against anyone, individual or nations, who tries to push their politics and/or religion down anothers, individual or nations, throat and not succeeding at that tries to shove it up their arse.
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I can think of more "elegant" ways to say it, but I can't think of a truer way.:)

Paul
 
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