Africa revisited

Gary, all of that is a good start, but just that, a start. I think you may still have quite a lot of research and study ahead of you before you form any iron clad opinions, particularly about the subject that started this fray. I'm equally sure that if you are in this to "wrangle" with anyone then that sort of looks like a combative approach, and may to some, cancel your apology above.

I'm not sure how your first two examples ie: Jane Goodall and Malayaka play into the Ivory and Hunting debate. A little tie in clarification would be welcome.

I am also sure that if you approach this with an open mind, do some more research and THEN form your opinion, you will be listened to, debated and treated with respect. (That would be reciprocal respect)

I'd love to see you get satisfied one way or the other and still be on amicable terms with our group.

Paul
 
The good news is, the bill to outlaw the ownership of elephant ivory in New York has been defeated.
 
GaryFlorida said:
Ok, here are the balls I am trying to juggle to determine what is going on with Africa.
First we got the Jane Goodall foundation and my understanding from my family of the Ngamba Island chimpanzee sanctuary in Uganda.
Next my family sponsors a place called Malayaka House which provides for abandoned children of Uganda.
Next I grew up with a gentleman who owns and operates Wilderness Taxidermy and Outfitters. He has been hunting in Africa for 30 years.
Well I just got the scoop from him as far as the big game hunter's theories approach and now I know enough to wrangle with anyone.
Gary
Click to expand...

Wow you are an expert now:thumbup:......What a relief to know that we will have such expert opinion as yours about "what is going on with Africa"
 
Emotional topic I know. Trying to get a grasp of the picture here.
According to my big game hunter friend who was very upfront and delivered a clear message.
If all the Safari type hunters were stopped now, all the game in Africa would be gone in 25 years.
The Chinese are deeply invested in Africa.
The fees paid and the process of game management is the only thing that is saving the wildlife in the areas of Africa were it is still allowed.
Where Safari styled hunting is not allowed, the animals are suffering tremendous losses.
I am getting opinions from every angle but that is to be expected.

Gary
 
GaryFlorida said:
Emotional topic I know. Trying to get a grasp of the picture here.
According to my big game hunter friend who was very upfront and delivered a clear message.
If all the Safari type hunters were stopped now, all the game in Africa would be gone in 25 years.
The Chinese are deeply invested in Africa.
The fees paid and the process of game management is the only thing that is saving the wildlife in the areas of Africa were it is still allowed.
Where Safari styled hunting is not allowed, the animals are suffering tremendous losses.
I am getting opinions from every angle but that is to be expected.

Gary
Click to expand...

Do you have ANY idea of what you are talking about? The above statements sound like something a ten year old child might submit in a school report. Simple declarative sentences with absolutely no analysis or even some input From you about that YOU think about the "BIG" picture (which, by the way, would probably take years of study).
 
GaryFlorida said:
Emotional topic I know. Trying to get a grasp of the picture here.
According to my big game hunter friend who was very upfront and delivered a clear message.
If all the Safari type hunters were stopped now, all the game in Africa would be gone in 25 years.
The Chinese are deeply invested in Africa.
The fees paid and the process of game management is the only thing that is saving the wildlife in the areas of Africa were it is still allowed.
Where Safari styled hunting is not allowed, the animals are suffering tremendous losses.
I am getting opinions from every angle but that is to be expected.

Gary
Click to expand...

Yea, we know. This has all been thoroughly presented and discussed.
 
I personally think you guys are being a little harsh on Gary. I think he's coming around. I hope he has a genuine desire to find the truth and I hope he is sincere in what he says. I believe he owes our friend Joe the most sincere apology. "Free Speech" and all, have at it, but don't treat him any worse than you would want to be treated. Just sayin'.
 
Not harsh. The only thing I am hearing now form this guy Gary is what others have already said here. I think he is pulling our chain. He is only here to enjoy the reactions. Best thing is to let this thread die and go back to the ivory situation. This person does not even want his identity known.
Gary House, MS
 
Mark Knapp said:
I believe he owes our friend Joe the most sincere apology. "Free Speech" and all, have at it, but don't treat him any worse than you would want to be treated. Just sayin'.
Click to expand...

to the first point; absolutely. I was going to say something to that effect myself.
the second point should not even have to be made, but I'm with you on that one as well.
you are a class act, Mr. Knapp.
 
Well, if he wants to do research on this subject and inform folks, why not do an interview with this long time hunter he says he knows, and post the video? I'd be interested in getting the firsthand perspective of someone who has an informed opinion.
 
David Stifle said:
Well, if he wants to do research on this subject and inform folks, why not do an interview with this long time hunter he says he knows, and post the video? I'd be interested in getting the firsthand perspective of someone who has an informed opinion.
Click to expand...

That's a pretty good idea.
 
Had one more conversation with Bill, the wilderness hunter.
He and a party are headed to Africa to shoot male lions. Lion fees in the area he hunts represent a quarter million dollars.
A area hunting was forbidden close by animal carcasses were baited with Strychnine which one can purchased over the counter
by native people. Every lion in the region this was done was killed. The cattle are the king of the range and they will do whatever to control the predators. Favorite milk shake is cattle blood mixed with milk.
So the number one plight is population explosion.
Number 2 problem is Chinese money controlling timber, mines and any natural resource they can get their hands on. Money is king.
African ivory has become very difficult to bring back here. Virtual paper chase and metal stamping required on the tusks.
Depending on the country and population dynamics, gene pools, there are still quotas for elephant removal.

Gary
 
Gary - You've massacred the english language so badly I can't understand a single thing you just wrote. You come across as a grade school kid trying to sound like a PHD grad, and it greatly diminishes your credibility. I realize you are passionate about this topic, and that you may actually have some pertinent points to make, but it just ain't workin' out for you when you write in that sort of garbled, nonsensical manner.

-Peter
 
As this century proceeds, more and more of the population growth will be driven by the least developed countries.
Most are in Africa with an average family size of 4.7 children per woman.
Africa is the only continent where population is predicted to keep growing beyond 2100.
I am afraid there is no light in the end of the tunnel for African Wildlife.

Gary
 
Admittedly these are very hard times for wildlife everywhere. That said, there is also a huge number of people around the world who care deeply about the future of wild creatures and places. Africa may seem like a distant place to many Americans, full of trouble and strife. That it is, nobody knows that more than those of us who live here.

But it is also the home of the most remarkable collection of wild animals anywhere on the planet, chief among them the African elephant, the largest land mammal and a creature of amazing intelligence and complexity. We can only hope that the forces of good prevail over the forces of darkness, who seek only to strip this continent of all its resources in the pursuit of profits. Not just minerals but animals too. To them its all just dollars. Its really a very clear imperative. Right now we stand at a crossroads. Either we take action now or the Africa of my childhood and yours - a truly wild place - will cease to exist. This is the sad truth, it has taken only 50 years for it to reach a crisis point.

It has come down to our generation to make the difference. All we can ask is that you listen to your conscience and ask yourself - am I part of the problem or part of the solution?

GaryFlorida said:
As this century proceeds, more and more of the population growth will be driven by the least developed countries.
Most are in Africa with an average family size of 4.7 children per woman.
Africa is the only continent where population is predicted to keep growing beyond 2100.
I am afraid there is no light in the end of the tunnel for African Wildlife.

Gary
Click to expand...
 
Mark-^ You hit the nail on the head.
David- According to the Vedas, we are in the 4th age called Kali. Of the 4 ages, this one is the worst. The condition of Man is degrading.
rolf
 
Buffalohump said:
Admittedly these are very hard times for wildlife everywhere. That said, there is also a huge number of people around the world who care deeply about the future of wild creatures and places. Africa may seem like a distant place to many Americans, full of trouble and strife. That it is, nobody knows that more than those of us who live here.

But it is also the home of the most remarkable collection of wild animals anywhere on the planet, chief among them the African elephant, the largest land mammal and a creature of amazing intelligence and complexity. We can only hope that the forces of good prevail over the forces of darkness, who seek only to strip this continent of all its resources in the pursuit of profits. Not just minerals but animals too. To them its all just dollars. Its really a very clear imperative. Right now we stand at a crossroads. Either we take action now or the Africa of my childhood and yours - a truly wild place - will cease to exist. This is the sad truth, it has taken only 50 years for it to reach a crisis point.

It has come down to our generation to make the difference. All we can ask is that you listen to your conscience and ask yourself - am I part of the problem or part of the solution?
Click to expand...


Thinking, What could you do to turn some heads and generate funds to preserve what I consider is your most valuable natural resource to the World, your wildlife without doubt..... so.
If I could pull this off I would do it in a second. Letter to the World. We have made a new assessment, Africa has now declared our wildlife the number one natural resource in
our Continent.
You can still purchase our diamonds, gold and oil but there will be a tariff added on to help us regain and finance the support and management of our most precious commodity the African Wildlife. Thanks for your support....


Gary
 
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