African bush knives

[jacknife]

This Aboriginal uses Okapis and Opinels . I have spent a number of years on different missions and communities , and never felt that having a knife made any difference , before I learned to make do with improvised cutting tools tho , I was regarded as something lower than a primitive however ....

the "primitive" folk I know regard people who havent the ability or skill to make their own gear if they cant buy it to be "primitive"

tho I can only speak for what I know , and that is far from representative of the whole of the "primitive" peoples .

Perhaps primitive was the wrong word to use, it's open to misunderstanding, you seem to have thought I used it in a derogatory sense, my little attempt at humour probably reinforced that opinion. I'm sorry if that is the case as I never meant it that way.
You'll notice I said primitive culture, my limited vocabulary could think of no other word to describe a way of life similar to that of the first humans on this planet.

Your point......
'the "primitive" folk I know regard people who havent the ability or skill to make their own gear if they cant buy it to be "primitive" '
.....was well made.

I hope you'll accept my intended meaning, that 'primitive' is characteristic of early ages or of an early state of human development.

 

[Myal]

Jacknife

No offense taken or intended .

I been lucky enough to live both sides of the fence . Most folk only ever see things from one side .

even "early stages of human development" are taken differently depending on the eyes you are looking thru

It makes life a hell of a lot more interesting to see it from both sides of the coin

 

[jacknife]

Myal

I'm glad you were not offended. :thumbup:

To get back on topic.

How easily available are knives in the outback? Where would they be bought?
Are they expensive in relation to income? How common is it for people to EDC knives?

I would love to hear of your experiences of tool making in the outback. Is it true that the people there sometimes use discarded glass bottles as a sort of flint substitute? How easy is it to find materials to make a cutting tool in the bush?

 

[Amos Iron Wolf]

I think in our "advancement" we've become less capable survival, let alone functioning as a society. "Primitive" seems pretty advanced if you as me and a lot more usable.

I once had a substitute professor in a class who was an anthropologist. She stated that we call ourselves a technical society. However, we are not technological. We are a technology using society, but the majority of people cannot produce that technology. Only use it. A bit of false security if ya ask me.

I guess that is one of the reasons I am always interested, and usually delighted, to see what people who really use basic tools for their very existence do use. Seems none of them are ever seen using the latest, cooloh, mega blade.

 

[Myal]

Knives in the outback ... that is a hell of a question ...

When I dress up as a white fella , and drive my own car , knives are easy as to come by , I could get schrade and boker , and a few chinese varieties of folders , the only fixed blades I came across were something like green river butcher and skinner knives , unless I could get to a camping shop in a bigger town , then the usual range of pakisani and chinese made junk ... as well as the over priced brand name knives that clutter up shelves ..

everything is expensive tho , freight to the remote places adds to it , as does the cut the retailer adds to make it worth his being in such a remote location in the first place .

when I put on my blackfella clothes and ride in a communal truck to get to and from the remote communities tho ... things are way different

a knife is a reasonably prized possession , cared for and looked after and carried everywhere . Nothing is realy private property unless it is kept on your person there , even your swag , its just the way it is .

I had a schrade , it took months to save for since income aside from welfare is zero , it was a small fixed blade skinner , people would often borrow it to carve emu eggs , if the carver sold 5 eggs , he might get $50 , and give me $10 so he would "be right next time" to borrow the knife .

Before I got enough together to buy it tho , using a piece of glass , or stone , or lid off a rip top tin . Anything that gave a sharp cutting edge . when I managed to turn out a "good" cutting tool , it went with me till I made a better one or it wore out , what ever was first

I did go way bush tho and be with realy traditional folk who are living pretty much as they have done for generations , as opposed to the folk who have taken well to town living and welfare .

FWIW , this is written by a bloke who is of Aboriginal and German origins , Im not trying to be racist or otherwise , just calling it as I see it .

 

[jacknife]

Great post Myal, That's exactly the sort of thing I wanted to know.
If you think of anything else please post it. Thanks.

 

[Myal]

OK , here is some pics of a traditional Australian knife . Its ancient , I didnt make it myself , but I kept it when I found it

this is the cutting edge , OK , its blunt now , and was discareded at the source of the stone , because this one was blunt , another was made given the chips I found near it .

There is a comfy hollow for the thumb , and a ridge on the opposite side that the finger naturaly kinda curls around to hold it , it is a suprisingly secure grip .

and finaly the other side

I found a few similar knives , but this one is the one I can find to hand for photos

looking at it , and looking at my Okapi , the actual blade profile is very similar .

I guess simplicity in manufacture and maximising the useability of the end product has been the go for longer than I been around

 

[Amos Iron Wolf]

Great stuff all around!

Thanks, Myal for adding some personal perspective from a unique position to view things from.

Now and again, I've found flint or stone pieces that look and feel to me that if they weren't used for tools once they should have been. Some folks I've mentioned it to (none of which I would remotely call expert in the field) go, "Naw, that ain't nothin but a rock." Mebbe so, but when I can grasp a palm sized piece of flint with a curved edge on one side and a thicker, non sharp edge on the other that fits in my nicely in my hand and is positioned to make a great cutter or scraper, I kinda wonder. Other stones have had shapes that fit the hand just right for using the rounded tip as an impact tool. Some of them may just be rocks that just happen to be naturally in these shapes. However, if they weren't used as tools it would most likely be because they hadn't been discovered by a crafty (pardon the pun) early resident of the area.

Hmmm, I need to dig around and see if I have any of those things laying around still.

 

[Myal]

You never know , nomadic people didnt have pickup trucks then , they used what was to hand , and moved on , taking only their essentials with them .

some things were used where they were needed and left there till the people came back again , to use them again .

There used to be stones for cracking beach almonds along the QLD coast , they always stayed put , because that food is only found along the coast , and only harvested in its season , so there is no need to cart the stones with them inland , when they can be left where they are going to be used next year

Beach almonds are almost forgotten as a food now , But Im an addict , cant get enough of them ..

a lot of things we use a file and hammer for too , people just used to pick up a handy rock and use that instead , to pulverise plants for leeching before cooking , or to free up the fibers for use in making string , smack open the bones that have marrow when its eating time ....

hammer stones and scraper stones are actualy very very common but we dont think in those terms now days , we use steel files , saws and hammers , and if we cant get our hands on them , we cant do the work ...

the guy who was found frozen in the glacier , Ozti , the pre history man who had a copper axe head , animal skin and grass clothes , a bag of medicinal herbs and 'srhooms and a bow and arrows ... while forensics have shown that he may not have been Mr Innocent him being in possesion of arrows having human blood on them and having been killed himself by arrow wound , I have a hell of a lot of respect for him , and folk as him , in their abilities to use what they had

he had metal work , leather work , grass work ? his cape was grass IIRC , his backpack had a wooden frame , his knife was stone , with a wooden handle , in short , those folk used everything

these days , we use metal , plastic , and natural stuff if we have too , and then we have to mess with it and "stabilise" it or subject it to a heap of treatment first its uncool to wear fur because its cruel to animals , but its cool to wear nylon , regardless of the environmental damage its manufacture causes ... , we have heaps of resources around us we dont utilise , because its not fashionable , or its just easier to buy premade synthetics , or we just are unaware of what there is that can be used for what purpose

Nuff thinking , my head hurts

 

[jacknife]

I used to shoot flintlocks and sometimes I'd try and Knapp some flint as it was hard to find anyone selling spare flints around here. I didn't have much skill in doing it, I'd find some flint, wrap it in a cloth and wack it with a hammer and hope I had something close to the shape I needed. I usually ended up with a couple of usable gun flints, but I also had plenty of sharp shards left over.

Once I took one of these sharp flints and tried cutting some things with it. I tried it on some webbing, it went through it almost like a modern knife would. I was impressed. I thought about EDC'ing a piece for fun

That was another great post Myal, please post some more (when you're heads better)

This has got me thinking....I know we knife users often think of ourselves as different from those in society who seem to get bye without the need for an EDC knife. We believe ourselves more prepared for anything that might happen during the course of our day. Other non-knife people might use a key to open a box or some mail, they might use anything they find around to do the job while we carry what we think we might need.

Here's the question... Which of those two types of modern tool users are more akin to aboriginal tool users, and what reasons might have caused this great divide between knife carrying and non-knife carrying folk?

 

[Myal]

the divide between knife carrying folk and non knife carrying folk ... its pretty big when you think about it ..

but they are not set in concrete either .

I know some girls who would never have thought of carrying a knife , but now have one riding on their bra strap . They would still never have thought of carrying one likely until I gave them one tho , its just not what girls do , now ,while they have no issue with coming into my workshop and talking about what they want in their next knife , looking thru my boxes of stock , they wont go into a knife shop . But they are girls , I never expect to figure them out .

THey have actualy told me they used to think only criminals carried knives , but now it would be hard for them not to have a knife on them .

theory time ...

beginning in childhood , some kids are trusted and taught responsibility , I was slaughtering and butchering animals at 12 well enough I was teaching our neighbours how to do it .

Other kids played nintendo and played ninja turtles with broom stick to whack each other

I reckon that how kids grow up and what they are taught while they grow has a hell of a lot to do with what they are taught about knives , and this carries over into adult hood .

some people never question what they learned , others do , some are mature about it , othrs are mall ninjas .

We tend to view knives with a certain respect , even a reverence it would seem , but we are a tiny section of a broader knife community so to speak

I have brothers who carry , and are deeply into the drug scene their idea of having a knife is radicaly different to mine .

I have another brother who is simply a reseller of the knives I import and a bit of a collector , totaly harmless guy , and fun to have around .

none of my brothers would help in the butchering tho , I learned that and did it alone pretty much , if they did , maybe theyd have had more respect for people , I dunno .

My wife likes knives , but she does awful things to them , like taking my favorite knife and trimming lawn edges with it ... it did a nice job tho ...

as to the real core reasons why there is so much pro and anti feeling about knives , I have no real single explanation other than its a product of peoples responses to social conditioning

and for people who are the most Aboriginal like in how they do things its worth noting that the Aboroiginals everywhere , were using the best methods they had at the time , when they found an improvement , they used it , like people anywhere do . They just did it hands on , each individual was pretty well capable of making all their required tools from what was to hand .

I reckon that these days , if someone is willing to have a go and make their own blade they come dam close . Even sharpening their own blade is a good start .