After 31 years, I could use some help.

S

sky

Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
35
I've been a seldom contributor but a long time reader. I've read some good advice to others and seen some unrivaled support for those in need.

After 32 years of marriage, I'm really considering divorce. I'm a very siritual man but not overly religious. I truly believe I made a committment to God and my wife when I took marriage vows. About five years ago, we adopted a 1 year old and we have an 18 and 25 year sons. Also, about five years ago we started going to a new church and that is the crux. It is most legalistic, exclusionary, and so intolerant of other religions and folks that don't follow the party line. I believe that all of us pray to the same God. Any criticisim I have of the church's attitudes is being interpreted as my traveling to the "dark side".
I simply can no longer attend that church. More....

In addition to the church issue, I became aware, this last November, that my wife has run up nearly 60K, yes 60K in credit card debt. This has happened three other times in our marriage. It was never this bad, 20K,
40K, 45K, and now the whopper. I was able to crack the nut before, but I'm 2 months from retirement. I also have a son entering in to college.

This is all too personal and painful for strangers, but I don't consider many of you strangers. We also have had separate sleeping arrangements for twenty of the thirty years.

After writing this, it would seem like I've been an idiot five times over but more detail would be needed on your part to understand why I did it. In short, I'm a committed, unselfish, moral person. Please offer your opinions without the "divorce the bitch" comments. I do think it will ultimately end in that manner.
 
That is a tough question. Do you still love her? If you do it may still be worth salvaging. If, not, divorce is an option. Some things to consider though. You would pay child support for the 1 year old you adopted for at least the next 12 years, longer if he goes to college. You could still get stuck paying the credit card debt. I have a couple of friends who got divorced and had to pay all the wifers credit card debt when the ex-wife filed bankruptcy. Bottom line, if she got in the debt when you were married you are screwed. Not to mention the other finances you lose. She is legally entitled to half of your retirement, the house, etc. What I'm getting at is leaving her for financial reasons alone may not be the answer. You could still be screwed financially. If you don't love her anymore that is one thing. If you think you may I would explore other options. You have a lot to think about.
 
60k in credit card debt?? Holy Mother of Buddah jumping on a pogo stick at a save the whales rally!!!!

Dude not that I am trying to pick a fight here..but honestly did you not know that she might be running up the old plastic when 60k worth of goods and services start showing up at the door? This kind of thing just does not hit someone in the head and you say...OMG I never knew??? Be honest with yourself first..did you know about it but chose not to deal with it? If the answer is yes then you both have a problem that needs to be worked out with a qualified counselor.

The church is easy. Puritanical negative thinking churches who bash the "world" defy the great commission that Jesus himself taught. Churches of this nature are not of God. God is love, Jesus taught patience, tolerance, love, and forgivness, he also taught mercy, kindness, and this chuch seems to have forgotten these things. Read the story of the woman at the well. Jesus was a fine upstanding Jewish boy, he had no business being in that part of town, talking to that kind of girl, Yet did he cut her up and put her down??? you answer that question and compare it to this church.

Divorce hurts kids, Sorry to not be PC but its true. You adopted a one year old son who needs a mom and a dad. You have a responsibility there.

I think you know what my answer is..Dude it may be tough but you have to work it out. Your wife has issues, serious issues with credit and money. you need to get a good credit counselor and a shrink for her. she is filling a void in her life with non stop shopping.

best of luck..

R-
 
The church issue is relatively simple - find a church with a better "fit" for you. Finding the "right" church can be, and often is, a difficult journey. But, the right church adds to lifes enjoyment.

I suspect you would willfully take the child, and as your wife has repeatedly shown herself to be fiscally irresponsible, you could gain custody. That would be a lawyers call, though.

Now comes the "love" question. Yea or Nay?

If Yea, go the councilling route, try to resolve differences. A reality check as it were.

If Nay, it's time for a serious talk with your wife. Contact a lawyer first, if for nothing else so as to protect your assets.

I really hate putting financial considerations at the top of the list when it comes to marriage or divorce. Important, yes, but mental happiness comes first, IMO. The debt issue affects your mental happiness, so it must be dealt with by both of you (marriage is ideally a sharing).

Well, that's all I can contribute. Good luck and fair well.
 
Ren the devils trailboss said:
Dude not that I am trying to pick a fight here..but honestly did you not know that she might be running up the old plastic when 60k worth of goods and services start showing up at the door? This kind of thing just does not hit someone in the head and you say...OMG I never knew???
Click to expand...
I can think of one way - gambling. On-line or at the casino, credit cards are welcome. Not saying that is the situation that sky is in, but that's one way you could be surprised with a huge cc debt.

Off topic, but this reminds me of being in a casino at Atlantic City when a dead-drunk guy in front of me was at the window trying to charge some chips or something. The guy was so drunk he couldn't aim the card through the slot, and the girl at the window asked me to help him slide it through because she "legally could not do it for him". I not only flatly refused but I ripped the employee a new one. :mad:
 
What's the good news? Seriously.

Nobody marries somebody perfect. It's always more of a balance where the person is so good in so many ways that we overlook the flaws - even find them charming or endearing.

Now, I'm sure you don't find that kind of credit card debt endearing, but if there is enough GOOD about her, than it might be worth finding a solution (her getting a/another job to work off her own debt) or even looking into the very-likely event that her spending is a SYMPTOM of something else. Has she had a rough life? A LOT of people spend money to fill a void in their life. If that void happens to be you not being in her bed, than you've killed two birds with one stone.

Therapy isn't just for people with serious mental illness. Maybe she could benefit. And as for you... trying to look at things from someone else's point of view is the hardest endevor worthy of the effort.

(Don't ask me about the church thing - I wouldn't know.)

.
 
As for the credit card, sell off any of the thing she bought with them. If If you get cents on the dollar its still less of a bill for you. Call all credit cards and freeze them. Have her name removed. Get all of her cards. Have her seek help. Sounds like a serious mental issue. My great Aunt said it best " I 'd rather marry a drunk then a gambler at least they pas out and stop but a gambler goes till its all gone" You can substitute spender for gambler.

One question though, You never noticed 60K more stuff around?

As for the Church. Don't go.


Paul
 
im not going to pretend to know alot, you have been maried a lot longer than i have been around. sometimes though, i find that simple answers are the best. everyone knows relationships are hard weve been through them all. sometimes they just are not meant to be. after 30 yrs however, there must have been a few really good things. i hate quiting, and i wont advise you to do it either. stick it out as best you can. work things out as best you can because there is nothing in life quite like a campanion to go through it with! :) take the CCs try to work it out, your older kids can handle a divorce, i took it pretty well at 12, college age and above will be fine, the young kid has probably been through enough of a hard time already.

i say work it out if you can, because life is far too short to try and start over, especially after 30 years!
 
Screw that.
Make her work at Wal Mart as a greeter until this is paid off.
PUT the responsibility back on her.
Either that, or she can ask your neighbors if they'd like fries with their meal.
If she has to babysit, mow lawns, do whatever, tell her that what has to be done because you can't do it any more. You've earned your retirement.
 
Walking Man said:
Screw that.
Make her work at Wal Mart as a greeter until this is paid off.
PUT the responsibility back on her.
Either that, or she can ask your neighbors if they'd like fries with their meal.
If she has to babysit, mow lawns, do whatever, tell her that what has to be done because you can't do it any more. You've earned your retirement.
Click to expand...

That's funny! :) It'll take a loooooong time working at minimum wage to pay off 60 Large!

My primary question would be: What did she spend all that money on??? Was the card used for bills, groceries, car repairs, home improvements, tuition, etc., or was it just blown frivolously and selfishly? And didn't you stress the importance of fiscal responsibility to her the last few times? And her attitude was basically, "You can't tell me what to do, I'll do what I like!"?

Does she work? Does she contribute money towards the bills, or is it all your money that she spends?

The child you adopted . . . did she pressure you to do this, so as to "fill the void" in her life?

And she's sleeping in a seperate bedroom? That is a very bad sign. When physical and emotional intimacy is cut off, the marriage is dead. Has she gained a lot of weight too? And feeds her face with sweets and grease throughout the day?

How active is she in this alleged "church"? Has her condition gotten significantly worse since she started attendance? Does she go to church several times a week (or even more)? Sounds like a hate cult to me. . .

If -- and that's a big "if" -- you decide this marriage is actually worth saving, serious changes will need to be made:

1.) Your wife is to have no access to the credit cards or checking account. Allow her a single debit card, what with to pay necessary and reasonable expences. Check the balance daily, and add minimal funds when appropriate.

2.) Your wife is to immediately cease and desist her affiliation with the hate cult "church." There are far more positive environments for her to have a more fulfilling and uplifting spiritual experience. If she fights you on this -- and she will -- use tactics she'll understand: pronounce her "demonized" and insist that she be exorcized. :p This absolves her of her horrific behavior during the past few years, and may even provide a placebo cure for a few of her mental problems.

3.) "Not appropriate for Community. We are not in W&C."

If you do decide to opt for divorce, do not tell her about it until after you've met the most experienced divorce attorney in the County and planned your strategy thoroughly. Spending all your money in a selfish manner and cutting you off from intimacy is grounds for divorce. You may have to pay child support for the adopted toddler for the next 21 years, though. :rolleyes:

Edited for language.
K.V. Collucci, Community Mod.
 
If you're serious, really serious, about giving this one more chance, see a marriage counselor. It amazes me how many people refuse to see an expert when it comes to personal matters. You wouldn't operate on your dog yourself, would you? NO, you'd take him to the expert, a veterinarian. They know more than you do. It's their job, take advantage while you still can. And make sure you pick up that Wal-Mart application on the way over. ;)
 
sky said:
I became aware, this last November, that my wife has run up nearly 60K, yes 60K in credit card debt. I'm 2 months from retirement. I also have a son entering in to college.
Click to expand...



Ren the devils trailboss said:
Holy Mother of Buddah jumping on a pogo stick at a save the whales rally!!!!
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but I can't top that reaction.


My hope is that you own a nice home.

If that's true, then thank God that prices are way high and the markets are very active right now. What you're gonna do is sell that house. Take 60K$ and pay off the cards. Set another 60K$ aside for the college, and then take the rest and go somewhere were real estate is still affordable, like South Dakota, and find a nice little house you can aford with what you have. That's where you're gonna live out your golden years. The move will also give you an opportunity to change churches.
 
It's a bit late for Mr. Sky, but this does remind us all that if your spouse has a history of credit abuse, you need to sign up for one of those credit watch services that e-mails you automatically if anyone opens a new account in your name.
 
Even without the debt and the rocky marriage, your six-year old is at risk. That kid is 13 or so years away from starting college. If you are retirment age today, you may not make it the 17 or more years that it will take to see her through college. Normally, we'd cover that risk with life insurace, but if you're retirment-age, the premiums will be prohibitive. You need to set up some sort of trust for her. Talk to an estate lawyer.
 
sky said:
Please offer your opinions.
Click to expand...

$165,000 debt?

Four separate occasions?

Did she promise faithfully every time not to do it again?

My advice:

1. Get

2. Out

3. Now

4. And watch the crash from a distance.

maximus otter
 
Thanks gentlemen. Some good words and some of what I expected. It is not only the money. It is the betrayal of it four times. We have been to "counseling", but I can't seem to get over it. I know I'm screwed financially if I leave, but I'm screwed anyway. She's not fat, ugly, or stupid. Just greedy and dishonest. Again, I'm pretty sure where this will end, but thanks to you all.
 
Sky,

I've been where you been except the debt wasn't as much and we had been together a much shorter time. Once we started the separation process there where a whole lot more bad news that came out. (infidelity mostly)

At anyrate it was painful and it took years to climb out of the financial hole, but I'm ever so glad it happened.

For me all the issues killed what love there was. It's up to you to decide when enough is enough.
 
I imagine that your religion forbids it, but have you thought about killing her, and hiding her body somewhere?.:D.:D.

Seriously...DRAG your wife to any type of counseling there is where you live (even if it IS for the 2nd or 3rd time)...Marriage, financial, mental, ect...You'll never be able to work this out on your own.
 
glockman99 said:
I imagine that your religion forbids it, but have you thought about killing her, and hiding her body somewhere?.
Click to expand...

ROTFLMFAO!:D :D :D

For YEARS, my sig was:

A friend will help you move.
A REALLY GOOD friend
will help you move a body.

You'd have to sell her organs to pay off the debt.

.
 
It sounds like you two haven't acted as a married couple for 20 years. You both are very disconnected from one another on many levels. I'm just wondering what it is that you do share with this "roommate" of yours? I'm really not trying to insult you. I just think that if you are going to stick together for moral reasons, than you owe it to yourselves to nurture the relationship. After all, isn't that the moral thing to do. What's so moral about staying together in this type of arrangement? Only you can answer that question.

I'm not suggesting at all that you need to divorce. I'm suggesting that you need to both take responsibility for letting your marital relationship falter. It sounds like it's been that way for a very long time. It's going to take a long time to fix it. You obviously stayed with your wife for a reason, none of us are in a position to appreciate that reason. But you are. You know what it is that has kept you there. The credit card debt is a symptom of a greater problem. Your ignoring the accumulating credit card debt seems like the opposite side of the same coin. I agree with the others that you both need to go to a really good counselor. You need to practice communicating with each other. Where have you both been all these years? What is distracting you from each other? What stopped you from sharing the same bed? Why has it continued for 20 years?

I think that if you looked inside yourself you would see that you have also contributed to the problems in the marriage by not being actively involved in the relationship. If you were actively involved, than you would've never approved of the sleeping arrangements for this long. I don't think it would be any different for you if you went out and found a replacement wife. Sooner or later, those comfortable behavioral patterns are bound to kick in again. You both need to work on it together. We all have problems. These are yours. You both fed each other's weaknesses for all of these years. Take action and fix it.

I agree with the others that your wife should be responsible for repaying her obligations. If she wants to work it out with you she needs to step up to the plate. $60,000.00 in credit card debt is amazingly selfish, I don't care if she is filling a void.
 
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