After all too many years of hand sharpening blades...

Can the Rookie chime in?

The only diamond stone I have is the Extra course they sell for the lansky kits (I figured if I was going to be a cheap-skate and only buy one...that was the one).

When I first got it used it to do a good amount of shaping on my 119. I hated it. It wouldn't do anything but glide and snag, or so it felt. I stuck with it and it was really great for a few knifes...(either carbon, bucks 420HC, or AUS6) now I can't "clean it" to save my life and I think my Diamond-E.C. is between my normal course and normal E.C. for speed...but still gives super-duper course finish??? (not figured that one out yet)
 
nozh2002 said:
This is what I read there:

"The last diamond we tested was a DMT Industrial Super Coarse, it lasted for 10 knives and it was completely smooth and it never came close to cutting as fast as our coarse."

It is absolutely different from what I experienced! It is so different that it is really hard to believe! I did re-profile more then 10 knives for sure - this is really heavy use, probably more then average customer will experienced in less then 6 monthes!

Here list of knives I reprofiled with my DMT D8XX - Extra Extra Coarse. And I use Corse and Extra Fine without any sign of wearing out, but D8XX was use really heavy and eat quite a bit of steel.

***** I deleted the list as it was quite long and for no other reason -- ColtM1911A1... *****

So total is 28 and no sign of wear out - it continue to eat steel as a beast. Initially it was as a belt sander but in one-two knives it turns from belt sander to just Extra Extra coarse.

This is my main solution for reprofiling - very effective.

This is just a prove that it work on more then 10 - on 28 knives and it is far from limit - I am continue to use it with great success!

Thanks, Vassili.
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I couldn't agree more with Vassili -- I was biting my tongue, almost to the point of drawing blood, until Vassili came through with his remarks...

Until mine begin to wear or smoothen to the point as some have stated, I just won't/can't/refuse to believe those claims. I work my stones hard and reprofiling with the DMT super coarse has given me nothing but high praise for this stone and all the other DMT stones down to their super-fine product...

As far as diamonds being pulled out of the hone from softer steels, I need to be convinced that this does in fact happen. Could these folks just have stones that are loaded with material that never has been flushed out and that's why they're experiencing this perceived or imagined phenomenon?

FWIW, acetone and a stainless steel brush does a good job on my DMT products...

I may be way out in left field on this issue, fellow knife enthusiasts, but my 'fact-or-fiction' internet truth meter is now in full operational mode, and I'll be standing by for more comments from you enlightened forum members before observing/deciding/predicting which way the meter eventually moves...

Thanks for the comments so far, Gentlemen...
 
Just another happy D8XXC owner. Best darn coarse hone I've ever used. I also have a coarse and fine DMT that came with the DMT clamp system. The coarse on that feels just as smooth as the fine does now by touch but it still grinds steel much faster than the fine does. Personally I think diamonds are great for coarse work but for finer grits I like ceramic and water stones more.
 
Hi

Could be that some diamond stones are beter than others. Seems like it. I bought 2 Lanky stones that hardly cut and others that are very good.

Regards
Frank
 
i dont know if its me , but my dmt stones have been somewhat of a dissapointment in reguards to wearing too soon.
 
he who say said:
i dont know if its me , but my dmt stones have been somewhat of a dissapointment in reguards to wearing too soon.
Click to expand...


I guess they vary in quality. I use massive pressure on my D8XX when reprofiling with no ill effects. I recently used it on all hard M2 and it cut so fast I thought I was cutting into AUS-4, no BS. I didn't know what the steel was until after sharpening it, and I really thought it was soft stainless steel, not 65 RC M2. This is after blasting through so much hard, high carbide steel that I can't remenber with that stone. My DMT Coarse and Fine stones have proved to be similarly durable, though theD8XX will always hold a special place in my heart for it's making my bevels properly thin and acute.

Mike
 
gunmike1 said:
I guess they vary in quality. I use massive pressure on my D8XX when reprofiling with no ill effects. I recently used it on all hard M2 and it cut so fast I thought I was cutting into AUS-4, no BS. I didn't know what the steel was until after sharpening it, and I really thought it was soft stainless steel, not 65 RC M2. Mike
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Ther are suposed to be at their best on hard steels. I also use them on M2 and worked for me. Not refering to DMTs but they vary from stone to stone. Some I bought lasted well others didnt.

I thought aboth this and think that those that get a long life from their stones are lucky and also they probablly use light pressure and sharpen harder steels. I think that the jig that Vasilyt uses prevents making to high a pressure. He also uses large stone that spreads the wear.

I looked aropund the web and reports vary. Some get good life and others dont. But if you want to sgarpen M2 what other options do we have?

Regards
Frank
 
Lucky Bob said:
Alright, given all this... does anybody have any suggestions on where to buy a DMT Magna-Guide? Or should I start my own thread?
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I use the DMT Aligner Kit which is very similar to the Magna, just a version that uses 4" sharpeners.

I rebevel Queen D2 with great success and ease.
 
he who say said:
i dont know if its me , but my dmt stones have been somewhat of a dissapointment in reguards to wearing too soon.
Click to expand...

What exact model did you use?
What is too soon? 10 knives as reported by EdgePro?

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Frank Hillary said:
Ther are suposed to be at their best on hard steels. I also use them on M2 and worked for me. Not refering to DMTs but they vary from stone to stone. Some I bought lasted well others didnt.

I thought aboth this and think that those that get a long life from their stones are lucky and also they probablly use light pressure and sharpen harder steels. I think that the jig that Vasilyt uses prevents making to high a pressure. He also uses large stone that spreads the wear.

I looked aropund the web and reports vary. Some get good life and others dont. But if you want to sgarpen M2 what other options do we have?

Regards
Frank
Click to expand...

So far I do not see proves that DMT D8XX is vary in quality and I am lucky. I do not see so far any reports which can prove what you sad. Everybody here reports excellent results on DMT D8XX. No single report of failure.

I do not see any reports except that three links you provided - which are not related to DMT Dia Sharp. So you do not have reasons to say that "Some get good life and others dont".

I use good pressure on my stone, the fact that it stays on 15 degree base does not prevent high pressure in any way - I can not imagine how it may prevent this. I use it against soft steel like INFI a lot - no sign of wear out.

I should also note that I use DMT Coarse and Extra Fine for much longer then ExtraExtraCoarse - it is relatively new and no sign of wear as well.

I do not see anything which can back up your point about hard pressure and soft steel making DMT wear out fast.

Thanks, Vassili.

BTW, What exactly is your personal experience with DMT?
 
d8xx, dia fold blue, and red& blue. maybe had the d8xx a month, maybe reprofiled 4 knives with it. the one thing i noticed was that the diamonds were not evenly distributed, and parts of the stone seamed more course then other parts. the diafolds saw moderate action, but seemed to lose their effectiveness somewhat slower.
 
Vasily,

nozh2002 said:
I do not see anything which can back up your point about hard pressure and soft steel making DMT wear out fast.

Thanks, Vassili.

BTW, What exactly is your personal experience with DMT?
Click to expand...

I did not say anything about DMT. My remarks were general. In my last post I said that I wasnt refering to DMTs.

I have 1 DMT stone I use for dresing ceramic and other hones.

Cheers
Frank
 
Frank Hillary said:
Vasily,



I did not say anything about DMT. My remarks were general. In my last post I said that I wasnt refering to DMTs.

I have 1 DMT stone I use for dresing ceramic and other hones.

Cheers
Frank
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You can not say then about diamonds in general based on some poor quality samples. Any product may be manufactured with poor quality, but you are not jugging something in general based on poor quality cheap samples!. I may find pretty bad ceramic stones, but I will not talk about ceramic in general based on that.

So your remark should be that DMT is excellent tool for sharpening but there are some poor quality diamond stones from different manufacturers on the market. Otherwise your remark is misleading. As you may see there are quite a bit very happy DMT customers here.

And "he who say" get rid of his stone not because it worn out and was not able to sharpen any more after 4 knives, but because he was unhappy with it looks - "diamonds were not evenly distributed" which on my opinion will not really affect sharpening, they randomly distributed on mine too and with such a big size 120 microns it may look too uneven but it works as a beast in my case for quite a while. Of course it will be nice to see pictures of his uneven distribution.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Frank Hillary said:
Hi,

I asked someone who knows his stuff on abrasives and he gave me this link. I do not understand most of it but hope that Vasily or someone else with
technical bakground can explain it to us.

http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?6666660Zjcf6lVs6EVs666GCGCOrrrrQ-

Regards
Frank
Click to expand...

This is 3M test results.

First they wash diamonds away using water-jet cutting machine. Conclusion is 3M product better then Vendor B and Vendor C.
Second they pick single diamond with steel pick under 45 degree and measure force needed to remove this single diamond. Again 3M better.

I rather do some sharpening on different plates and see how long it takes for me to remove certain amount of metal after number of use. Like take steel plate and remove 1mm (or 1g) of it with this or that sharpening device - doing this 50 times and measure how many times I need to do single sharpening move.

To me those results provided in 3M's paper does not really represents to much - picking single diamond out with pick may show some strength of bond, but this is not what happens during sharpening where it deals with flat surface. Water-jet in this regards is also qiute different thing them sharpening. And most important it is meaningless until we know what it was tested against. Plus this does not include alternative to diamonds solutions - I am wondering how water-stones will deal with cutting water-jet?

Anyway, I have my own very positive experience and all this reports from others - it will be really hard to convince me that DMT DiaSharp is wearing off completely after 10 knives as it was stated in that Edge Pro link you provided earlier.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Vasily

Thank you fopr interpretation of paper. To me it proves that diamond loss is problem enough for 3m to make it test subject and some brands are beter than other

The first post in this tread said nothin about DMT. It was about diamonds being beter. You keep defending DMT insted of comparing diamonds to stones. To me this tread is OT.

Like you I also use diamonds. For very hard steels and dresing cermic hones IMHO they are the best there is but they are not cheap and some wear out very fast.

Maybe our time be beter spent if we discuss how to make diamond stone last longer. Then maybe we should say brand x is beter than brand y.

Cheers
Frank
 
Frank Hillary said:
Vasily

Thank you fopr interpretation of paper. To me it proves that diamond loss is problem enough for 3m to make it test subject and some brands are beter than other

The first post in this tread said nothin about DMT. It was about diamonds being beter. You keep defending DMT insted of comparing diamonds to stones. To me this tread is OT.

Like you I also use diamonds. For very hard steels and dresing cermic hones IMHO they are the best there is but they are not cheap and some wear out very fast.

Maybe our time be beter spent if we discuss how to make diamond stone last longer. Then maybe we should say brand x is beter than brand y.

Cheers
Frank
Click to expand...

In the link you provided in your first post #9 it was directly stated that DMT does not last more then 10 knives. This is so different from everybody experience that need to be addressed.

I do not see any reason to discuss how to make some poor quality diamond stone last longer - I do not have this problem with my stones as well as anybody else here.

There is no any reason to believe that diamonds are only for hard steel - everybody here saying that they works perfect on hard and on soft steel and does not wear out for long.

I think we may state that there is some poor quality diamond tools on the market and so better get the best.

Now most expensive diamond stone id D8XX - coast about $66 - first link from googling "DMT D8XX" - this does not more expensive then water-stones! This is almost as gas for full tank this days.

You information about diamonds - strength, application area and cost is outdated. IMHO diamonds are the best sharpening solution now for any steel - fastest, cleanest, last very long and not expensive.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
I think that the fact that i have now have two DMT extra coarse hones that are now glass smooth (even after cleaning) is testament that they can wear out.
 
I've used dmt diamond whetstones for many years and absolutely love them. They are all I use for all my sharpening,including axes.I've had very good results and no complaints.
 
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