Aftermarket in the Toilet?

Betzner,

I think most would agree that at a minimum, the economic climate will cause fewer new people to buy their first knife, or upgrade to higher quality. What do you think the impact of that will be on future secondary market sales? It sure won't be positive.
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This is your "snapshot". You are primarily focused on a few makers. As such any affect that will minimize a collectors abilities to continue to pay high prices for say such makers as Erickson and D'Holder...is viewed as a negative by you.

Those of you who buy what you like and do so with no regard to the after market...the economy is of no consequence.

However, if you are among the growing number who still proudly proclaim that they buy what they like (but are keeping a keen eye on the aftermarket).

Boys and girls you are now buying for a return on investment...congratulations you are now investors.

As such you can't "fall in love" with a particular knife or maker and then complain when the market doesn't support your decision.

The aftermarket is viewed by many here as at least being soft. Yet we see Burt Foster offering another way to sell your knives...as well as the other person offering basically the same thing with a different twist on the "fees".

Rest assured if this business model works, you will see more sites like this in the future. Especially as this business model gets the money up front. The risk is all on those who utilize the service.

More shows than ever, more dealers than ever, more makers than ever...somebody out there is buying knives!

Hi Joss,

I have to agree with Betzner to a point. Many of the knives sold by dealers never make it to their websites.

I had a collection consigned to me about 10 days ago...10 of the knives sold never seeing the web site. Since Sunday I picked up 7 orders and bought another 4 knives that will never see the web site. That is 21 knives in 10 days that will be sold without the knowledge of the general public.

I do agree with you because Nordic's pricing can be a little low at times, there are dealers who pick up the knives (primarily because they know the maker position in the market better than Nordic) and will resell the knife for more money. I suspect that many of those knives are consigned to Nordic for "quick sale". As well we do not know what the person paid for the knife originally. They may have made money, Nordic made money and the dealer who buys the knife and resells it makes money.

I will let you guys debate Nordic knives. They have been in business a long time. I suspect they have a pretty good idea what is best for their business.
 
STeven, no question that this thread attracts both fact and opinion. And no one has the crystal ball that will reveal all. Most secondary markets will feel an impact from the the world economic conditions, but to try and put a number on it is impossible.

However, the direction at the moment is obvious, though it's momentum is not.
 
betzner said:
However, the direction at the moment is obvious, though it's momentum is not.
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Well said, Bob....poor economics and increase of risk has a tendency to weed out the dilettantes....but those PRUDENT and faithful are frequently rewarded for staying the course.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
One might also consider "Vintage" customs a separate issue, to some degree. Older 1980s, 70s stuff that doesn't carry a lot of hype or fresh appeal is often a backseat to the more in-demand list of "who's who". Right?

..maybe it depends how obscure the maker or his knives become. (What is the reason on Nordic's Wild Bill Caldwell prices .. volume discounts?) i also see a lot of Daniel Winkler knives there, they do not seem to drop too far down, below $1000 anywhere, but do they sell? ..dont know. What is the market like on D'Holder's knives, i see a lot of these knives - might be a good indicator "species".

Ask any of the high profile knife makers here about their waiting lists. Seperate issue, right. New knives are a different category i think.
David
 
hummmmmmmmmm.......I read all of this with great interest.


And it IS interesting.


and Les: "However, if you are among the growing number who still proudly proclaim that they buy what they like (but are keeping a keen eye on the aftermarket)."

That is an incomplete sentence!!!!!:D
 
Primary and secondary markets:

Wouldn't one affect the other?

Tom,
Anytime you visit here it is a great honor i feel. You are knife royalty - if there is such a thing. OK, now the favor i need.

If you (will) sell me a timascus knife i can sell it to Antonanton for $300 profit. Can you keep this a secret? And, How long is your waiting list. :)
David
 
2knife said:
Primary and secondary markets:

Wouldn't one affect the other?

Tom,
Anytime you visit here it is a great honor i feel. You are knife royalty - if there is such a thing. OK, now the favor i need.

If you (will) sell me a timascus knife i can sell it to Antonanton for $300 profit. Can you keep this a secret? And, How long is your waiting list. :)
David
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Yes David, primary and secondary markets have a great impact on one another.

As Les mentioned, in my recent thread many (myself included) were stating that 2008 was a good year for customs knives however we are only addressing the secondary market in this thread.

A good primary market where makers are selling many new knives will very often have a negative impact on the secondary market. Many sell their existing knives (often at a loss) to finance new knives creating a glut of old knives on the secondary market.
The more knife dollars going towards new knife purchases the less left for existing knives on the secondary market.

Nothing new, just the principles of supply & demand at work.
 
Hi Tom,

The mantra on this particular forum has been for the last 10 years (next month for me):

I Buy What I Like

Over the same time I have said in numerous seminars, articles and even in my book...that is the first rule of being a knife collector.

HOWEVER, if that is your basis for buying/collecting custom knives. You give up the right to complain about your knives not holding their value or losing money in the aftermarket.

I think too many "I buy what I like" collectors are now some of the same talking about the "state of the after market"....being in the toilet!

What hurts the markets (primary and secondary) are individuals with very limited experience and/or limited knowledge of the custom knife market. Not just here, but at shows, in magazines, etc. Giving opinions, based on incorrect or insufficient information.

Tom, you and I are professionals. You make knives to sell. I buy knives to sell.

We have both seen makers, dealers and collectors rise to the top and then drop. We have seen market sectors get super hot, only to cool off, then get hot again.

While those of us involved in this thoroughly enjoy the knives, the people and the experiences. When we start to discuss the current state of the market(s). We owe it to those reading threads like this to be accurate as to our experience and our perspective.

With all the experience I have, there are areas of the custom knife market that I seek out others input. In some areas at best, I can only make a casual observance of which makers are selling and which knives are selling.

That is nothing more than a snapshot of that particular moment in time.

As someone who makes his living within the custom knife market. I have to gather information from multiple sources. As STeven pointed out, makers, collectors and other dealers can provide invaluable insight as to what is really going on in the custom knife market. As more often than not these are the same people that are the "Market Makers."

Tom, if the magazines paid me for my grammar...I would never get a check! LOL
 
Hi 2,

Yes primary markets affect secondary markets and the secondary market affect the primary markets.

Most makers ignored this for years...the ones who have a "business acumen" no longer make that mistake.

Makers can have a huge impact on their primary market by paying attention to what their clients (collectors) think about their knives in the aftermarket. There is a gold mine of information that is there for the taking.

This information becomes part of the content that makes up a portion of the "Homework".
 
Les Robertson said:
Hi 2,

Yes primary markets affect secondary markets and the secondary market affect the primary markets.

Most makers ignored this for years...the ones who have a "business acumen" no longer make that mistake.

Makers can have a huge impact on their primary market by paying attention to what their clients (collectors) think about their knives in the aftermarket. There is a gold mine of information that is there for the taking.

This information becomes part of the content that makes up a portion of the "Homework".
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Totally Agree!
 
Les Robertson said:
Hi Tom,

The mantra on this particular forum has been for the last 10 years (next month for me):

I Buy What I Like

Over the same time I have said in numerous seminars, articles and even in my book...that is the first rule of being a knife collector.

HOWEVER, if that is your basis for buying/collecting custom knives. You give up the right to complain about your knives not holding their value or losing money in the aftermarket.
Click to expand...

That would be me - to a "T". In my meagre 12 years as a small-time collector, I have purchased about 150 custom knives - from $98 to just over $5,000. (most are in the $1000 range). During those 12 years, I have sold 4 knives - two custom fixed blades (no interest in FB's) and two tactical folders.

I have never complained about a single knife I own 'losing' in value. To me, every one of them has 'increased' in value.
 
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Hi Holger,

You are very typical of a collector who has been collecting as long as you have.

You and the collectors like you are the back bone of the custom knife industry.
 
Les,
Can you give some specific type examples what you mean, how makers paying more attention to 2ndary market can have a huge impact on the primary- ? meaning styles, material choices? ..or are you meaning adjusting prices?

What exactly defines the "homework"? ..being aware of what things?

Some time ago, i remember you saying the "kiss of death" was when a maker adjusts his prices according to aftermarket values- increased demand.

How does a maker do this successfully, without shooting himself in the foot?
David
 
When you really think about it, all collectors and all different collecting philosophies add balance and contribute to the community as a whole.
 
I always find these types of topics to be of great value from an educational aspect. My knowledge of the secondary market comes almost exclusively from these threads and from checking out dealer websites on a somewhat regular basis.
 
This thread is degenerating into de-generalities. The markets are what they are and will be what they will be. Maybe that is general enough for everyone, LMAO.
 
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