Aggressive Ads

C

chad234

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Joined
May 14, 2000
Messages
674
Hello and welcome,
One of the contentions that many of the BFC forumites have had with CS is the type of ads that CS runs, the attack on Gerber is an often cited example (your riposte).
The other example has been the claims made by CS in regards to the Trailmaster, an excellent product to be sure, but with so many excellent knives being produced by the likes of Jerry Busse, Newt Livesay, Trace Rinaldi, Allen Blade, Kevin Mcclung and many other talented (truly gifted) knifemakers, who also use top notch materials coupled with excellent designs, how is it possible to make such broad claims of one product being "the best"?
Your Guhrka Kuhkuri (sp?) which you claim to be able to outchop any other knife on the market is another example. I understand that it has been adapated by the American Bando assoc. which is a significant accomplishment,
however there are offerings by Gurhka House and Himalayan Imports which are much thicker and heavier than yours, which physics suggests would make them better choppers (although probably less effective as weapons.)
My experience with your products has been very positive. I have owned a SRK and Recon Tanto. Both were excellent products and a very good value. I found that the Carbon V steel took and held a very good edge, the heat treatment seemed very good and the kraton handles were adequate for short term use. I gave both of these knives to one of my brothers for use in high angle rescue operations. They have served him well and I have faith they will continue to do so.
I have never purchased a CS folder, I found that the quality of your fixed blade knives far exceeded the relative quality of your folders and they (folders) did not represent as good a value. I also do not care for your serration pattern, I find that it binds easilly and is impossible to sharpen.
It is not my intent to give offense or insult CS, Mr. Thompson (especially not Lynn after I saw the full contact fighting he practices) or any one else.
Again I welcome you to our community and I hope that you find peace and joy for all your days.
Be safe,
Chad

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"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
George Orwell
"Those who hold the thin blue line keep order, and insure that anarchy and chaos will not prevail." Chad (1992)
"He who lives by the sword dies by the sword. He who dies by the sword did not train hard enough" -Chad (1999)
chad234@email.com

[This message has been edited by chad234 (edited 09-16-2000).]

[This message has been edited by chad234 (edited 09-16-2000).]
 
Originally posted by King Grinch:
What is wrong with being confrontational in ads? Coke and Pepsi have been doing it for DECADES.
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I think that CS makes claims in its ads whci are pretty funny, such as claiming that aus6 is a razor sharp super steel or that they use 420J because it is super strong and then speak badly of Gerber's use of ATS-34. Cold steel uses AUS6 because it is relatively inexpensive and is easy to machine, which are the same reasons that other knife companies use it. AUS6 is a fairly good steel, I find it very easy to sharpen for example, it is not however the great steel that CS claims.
Lynn Thompson runs a huge knife company, I am a lowly public servant. I have enough respect for Thompson to assume that he has a far greater knowledge of material science (particularly metallurgy as it applies to knife blades)than the average consumer. Why then does CS make such outrageous claims in regards to their products? It is akin to the infomercial that claims the "sportsman dream collection" are the finest knives made.
I do believe that within their price range CS makes some fine products, the SRK for example is probably among the best knives in the $50 price range. I also like their master hunter model and recon tanto. I certainly wouldn't feel underknifed with a CS products.
But to show pictures of a weight hanging off the handle of an AUS6 and zytel lockback folder and claim that this makes it the best is rather silly.
I understand that CS is leaving BFC, this does not suprise me. It is easy to make exagerated claims to an unknowing public, it is far harder to make these claims to a body of experienced consumers.
Take care and be safe,
Chad

 
I actually like reading Cold Steel ads, even though I take them with a grain of salt. Even if you discount 50% of it, their advertising still gives good information about their products. I find reading their claims, especially in their catalog if you can get your hands on one, quite entertaining if not entirely believable. To relate it to a term from my growing up in Hawaii, it's a good "steady rip" -- BS so good you want to keep listening to it.

Whether or not you believe all of Cold Steel's claims, their proof video, or whatever, I still think you're getting good value for your money when you buy one of their products(as long as you don't pay full retail. . .Yikes!). Having read comments from many fellow forumites and owning several CS knives personally, I think you're going to get a good product when you buy Cold Steel despite the (good and bad) hype.


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Danny
aka "kuma575"
 
Originally posted by chad234:

I understand that CS is leaving BFC, this does not suprise me. It is easy to make exagerated claims to an unknowing public, it is far harder to make these claims to a body of experienced consumers.
Take care and be safe,
Chad
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Chad,

Good call there. I too, like alot of the Cold Steel line and have no problem recommending their product to others. However, I do find their ads amusing and tend to take very little they say seriously.

Just my 2 cents well 0.000132345 after taxes.
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Originally posted by King Grinch:
The SRK is one of the best in the $50 range. It is one of the best in the $50-400 range.
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While I like the SRK and find it to be a good value (at $50 street discount not msrp) to compare it to higher quality (and much more expensive) knives is not fair to Cold Steel. The Fallkniven A1 is, imho, a far superior knife, vg10 steel, convex edge and better build quality (and that is the $100 dollar range) in the under $200 Newt Livesay has knives that make the SRK seem pitiful, as does the Busse basic line. In the under $400 range Busse Combat, Trace Rinaldi, Kevin Mcclung, Chris Reeves and about a thousand other custom makers provide blades that truly show that the SRK is a value (economy) oriented piece.
The quality of work found in custom knives (materials, grinds, fit and finish and most important an excellent heat treatment) are of such higher quality that comparisons between customs and economy grade productions are quite silly.
I really do like the SRK, there is one on the way to me right now (thanks bteel)and I have owned them(SRK & Recon Tanto)in the past. But I also own knives by Busse, Livesay and Rinaldi and there is simply no comparison.
I do, however, recognize that you have formed your opinions based on your expierences. I thank you for sharing them and although I strongly disagree I recognize the value of your views.
Take care,
Chad


------------------
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
George Orwell
"Those who hold the thin blue line keep order, and insure that anarchy and chaos will not prevail." Chad (1992)
"He who lives by the sword dies by the sword. He who dies by the sword did not train hard enough" -Chad (1999)
chad234@email.com
 
I sold all of my Randalls and Gerbers for Cold Steel products which I believe to be the
best value for the money.Even for us knife enthusists,Cold Steel performance via their
video is pretty much prima facia evidence,dont you think? How many other knife
makers-custom or not step up to the plate and
put their products on the line like Cold Steel? None that I can see.
 
Originally posted by dick oconnor:
I sold all of my Randalls and Gerbers for Cold Steel products which I believe to be the
best value for the money.Even for us knife enthusists,Cold Steel performance via their
video is pretty much prima facia evidence,dont you think? How many other knife
makers-custom or not step up to the plate and
put their products on the line like Cold Steel? None that I can see.
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Most makers test their products, or have them tested. The difference is they don't make "hype" videos, I'd be very suprised if the CS products you own would perform as well as those in the video. While I agree they represent a good value, they also have the ergonomics of a brick, kraton handles that are not nearly as nice as other makers synthetic handles (i.e. Busse's Resiprene C or Micarta)
The Trailmaster, while a fine knife, does not really compare to the Busse lines (basic or combat) yet CS makes claims of their products that border on the absurd.
There are many custom makers (and I mean many, like thousands; Livesay, Rinaldi, Blade, Mcclung to name a few) who make a far superior product. Yet CS makes bold claims that make them look like fools when read by experienced, educated consumers.
I contend that it is their BS ads (which make them look foolish) and not any horrific time constraints, that is the true reason for their withdrawl from the forums.
I'm positive that Lynn Thompson is capable of building a better knife than me, can use a knife better and knows far more about cutlery than I will in ten lifetimes, and that is the reason his ads are so insulting.
He should know better. Period.
Instead Cold Steel makes silly claims about their knives, just like an informercial or a scam artist at the state fair. What is worse though is that CS makes negative comments about other companies products and inflated claims about their own.
I own CS products, and given their price, am pleased with their performance. They are not however the knives that Cold Steel would like you to believe.


 
Gonna have to agree w/ some of what Chad says here. It does seem a questionable that, when confronted w/ a wide variety of topics that challenge Cold Steel to either improve upon (i.e., handles besides kraton--except for a few, more pricy models) existing products or respond to their bold claims, the reaction is to leave. Again, like Chad, I question the validity of time constraints being a reason for this. Take a look at some of the threads. When will liners be available on CS folders? Have any plans for an auto? Going to make Nogales blades w/o serrations? Look at the response, which is practically the same each time: "Sorry, no plans, blah blah blah blah..." You get the impression that this guy could really give a rat's ass. He at least could have said something along the lines that he'll see if that's a possibility in the future. That's not to say that they sell junk. Far from it, but by the same token, they ARE NOT PERFECT and their claims, out of the box, haven't come true in my experience. The Vietnam Tomahawk I have had an uneven grind and bad beveling over all. Also, the handle was loose. The javelin I have has a slightly bowed shaft and is not "razor sharp," nor was my Bushman or the Desperado I had. In fact, the grind on my Bushman was uneven, too. Now, you might say that no one should expect much out of the Bushman, but when you read what they've got to say about it, I damn well will expect a lot. Not only from the product, but from the people behind it. So why shouldn't Chad challenge CS' claims? I believe he's stated that he owns some of their stuff, as do I, and honestly, their stuff doesn't seem to me to be as good as they say it is NIB or otherwise, but then I've never decided to abuse my stuff, either. Maybe my Bushman really could punch through a car door. But in the end, no CS doesn't make junk, but they shouldn't be acting like their $hit don't stink, either.
 
If some people think CS ads are not much and not truthful why doesn't somebody sue them for false advertising?
 
Originally posted by glockman99:
chad234,

Ya mean that I own 10 pieces of Cold Steel JUNK?.
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I never said that CS products were junk, please reread the thread. I simply stated that there is a vast difference between their stated level of performance and the performance that can be expected in the real world. I really do like some of CS products, but to say that SAN MAI III (which is just 420 and aus8) is some type of wondersteel is laughable. To state that AUS6 is a "razor sharp" and ATS34 is "dull gray steel" is laughable, to write that the Trailmaster is a better knife than any other is super laughable. The most laughable of all is that there are many members of the public that buy into those BS claims, like a ginsu salesman.
Glockman, if you own 10 CS products and are satisifed with them that is all that matters. I have been satisfied with ones that I own and the CS catalog provides laughter when I'm in the bathroom. It is also useful if I run out of toilet paper.
Glockman, You offered to moderate this forum, you are a fan of CS, do you not admit that their claims are vastly inflated? Do you believe their claims are true? If memory serves correctly you are a retired LEO, which is admirable. I'm sure that your years of experience taught you to spot BS lies from a mile away, especially when as blatant as Cold Steel's infalted, self serving claims. Do you dispute this?
Take care and be safe,
Chad

 
I've got a few words for Cold Steel: Success leads to arrogance. Arrogance leads to failure. I don't own any CS products. I was planning to buy some. Not now. I'm taking my business elsewhere; to folks who realize the value of customer service over bragging.

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Kevan "Raven" Taylor-Perry
 
Chad - this is a really touchy and hairy topic
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I agree on the agressive tone on CS' adverts. I personally own four CS knives and they are value for money in terms of quality.

Sam

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have spydies
will travel...
AKTI Member #A001148
 
Originally posted by samo:
Chad - this is a really touchy and hairy topic
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I agree on the agressive tone on CS' adverts. I personally own four CS knives and they are value for money in terms of quality.

Sam
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Samo uses knives besides Sal's wonderful creations? I am shocked
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Perfect example look at Spyderco's ads, I have never seen any self serving hype or bs, only words to the effect that knives are tools to make life more livable. Spyderco has great products and no inflated ego bs. CS has some good products and lots of BS.
BTW I got a SRK this week, lasted a day before it was "borrowed." It was nice while it lasted though, probably the best knife around for fifty bucks.
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I agree with Chads opinion of Cold Steels advertisements.

Example:
In their catalog, the Trailmaster is shown in a vise with the knife being bent. Ever notice the blade isn't snug in the vise jaws? There is a noticeable gap between the jaws and the blade, to make the angle of the bend look greater.

And, yes, I own and use CS products.


 
The Cold Steel line is more tactical overall
than most other manufacturers,hence the kraton handles and the absence of more
decrative features like wooden handles,etc..

I beleive each of their knives will perform
as shown in their video-don't have any reason to think otherwise.
 
Originally posted by dick oconnor:
The Cold Steel line is more tactical overall
than most other manufacturers,hence the kraton handles and the absence of more
decrative features like wooden handles,etc..

I beleive each of their knives will perform
as shown in their video-don't have any reason to think otherwise.
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I have some ocean front property for sale, are you interested? I'll send you a very nice videotape and you can send me your credit card number. Deal?
I better quite before CS send a hit team after me
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BTW my last SRK lasted about two days before it was "borrowed" so they must be doing something right.
Take care,
Chad
 
In my experience the Aus 8 steel sure does get sharpper than most Factory Ats, and most of the other stainless steels out there. Edge holding is a anouther matter but isn't bad on the Aus 8 and can be resharpened back to a great edge quickly. Best steel maybe what are you looking for.
 
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