Air Force Survival Knife - Opinions?

lets put it this way, if the planes on fire and your only way out is sawing a door into the lexan or metal of the aircraft, your basically F-ed royally. now a small hatchet would be alot more effective and allow you to get out in time, probabaly before the plane goes up in a mushroom cloud.
ive only tried the afsk on aluminum and plexi glass, so i cant say too much about the lexan, even though ive machined it many times. it probably would gum up the teeth if you get the saw too hot from friction.
 
I almost hate to say it. I know that the AFSK is a classic and all but it would seem that the consensus is that the relatively useless saw teeth that have always kept me from buying one of these are really just that. Useless. :(
 
The "cutting you out of a downed aircraft" concept aside, I think a more mundane survival use of the sawteeth would be cutting the inside corners of trap triggers...
 
now a small hatchet would be alot more effective and allow you to get out in time, probabaly before the plane goes up in a mushroom cloud.
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The AFSK was shortened because a standard kabar was deemed too long. You think you can get enough leverage inside a cockpit to wield a hatchet and get any decent force behind a strike?
 
Just for kicks I attacked a 16kg steel can with the AFSK. The can was originally used to contain coconut oil, and I had been saving it for just this test. The steel is heavier than aircraft aluminum.

The saw on the back had no problem moving right along. I was able to open a large flap through the side of the can in about 30 seconds of sawing.

On light sheet steel it is easier to use the point and just shove the knife through as the blade and robust false edge cut in both directions. By spacing the cuts you can easily make them join up. I was easily able to cut a large round hole in the bottom of the can using this method. It required neither patience nor great force to move right along makng cuts where I needed them.

In the right position I was able to just stab the knife through the side of the can and shove downwards letting the blade cut the steel in a straight line under body weight. There was no discernable damage to the point.

The large double guard protects the naked hand from coming into contact with the sharp metal. It also allows you to shove down with force on the knife with little fear of lacerations. You can rock the knife back and forth using them as levers to extract the knife from the metal.

I wish I could post photos here. The can definitely came up the looser. Things designed to fly are made of lighter stuff. Mac
 
Burncycle said:
The AFSK was shortened because a standard kabar was deemed too long. You think you can get enough leverage inside a cockpit to wield a hatchet and get any decent force behind a strike?
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I take your point, but "crash axes" are still GI for some aircraft.
 
Blue Sky said:
The "cutting you out of a downed aircraft" concept aside, I think a more mundane survival use of the sawteeth would be cutting the inside corners of trap triggers...
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Aside from the "excape from canadian airlines" aspects, there are far better knives for bushcraft. In fact in general, for light metal cutting a thin edge knife goes through it pretty easily :


http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/images/can_cut.jpg

That was done with a little fixed blade :

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/images/ss_meuk_mnk.jpg

the one in the middle.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
...there are far better knives for bushcraft.
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No doubt, but the question I was addressing was not "what's the best choice for bushcraft" (an endless and interesting subject) but instead "what use are the sawteeth". I was trying to give an example other than cutting metal or Lexan, and I think I did. And pict did a great job of showing just how well the edge cuts through thin metal, so you're right about that.
 
Yeah, but the question becomes would it actually allow you to get out of the aircraft faster than something like the Becker CU/7, because the Becker would be much better for Bushcraft and general utility. It would also be interesting to see the various serration patterns compared on such light metals.

-Cliff
 
From the way pict described push-cutting the AFSK through the can, I wouldn't expect a longer blade to be much advantage. After you've stabbed through and started to cut, what is the extra length doing for you? His comment about the large guard protecting the hand from sharp metal is unique and interesting too. For maximum leverage, you would want your hand close to the metal. Maybe the guard is designed correctly after all... Once outside though, it's a whole new situation.
 
The thing I liked about the AFSK cutting the can was the false edge. It cuts in the opposite direction as the blade so it was easy to join up the holes I was making. The cuts would link up very quickly.

My BK-7 would probably do just fine as well. In fact I have an open invite to go fishing up in the Amazon with a bush pilot friend. You can bet I'll be wearing my BK-7 on that trip.

The AFSK is not a useless piece of junk IMNSHO. It is one of the 20th century American classic knives and it is inexpensive enough to buy and evaluate for yourself. Everyone has one and everyone has an opinion. Just the fact that this tread has run to 4,500+ hits says something. It can be improved by the end user. There are better knives for bushcraft, even in the price range. Mac
 
I found this last night. Great site if you're into US military knives...

http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/okca_1996.htm

Scroll down...

"The specifications supplied by the Navy were very exact and tough. The knife had to cut through dense underbrush, be able to drive a nail through a 2" board and saw through an airplane or helicopter fuselage. The latter one presented the biggest challenge. The first step was to produce saw teeth capable of cutting aluminum on a production piece. The blade size selected was a 6" model. By trial and error the saw teeth were selected and standardized on. The guard was made oversize to help in the extraction of the knife once stuck through the aluminum to establish a hole and too aid in the sawing process."

"The third generation of knives are the ones we know today. Manufacturer stamped and dated on the pommel flat. This change took place at the beginning of 1967, as some knives can be found blade stamped and also pommel stamped and dated 1-67. Some what of an oddity but why throw away those blades already made. During this time period Utica Cutlery Co. also won a contract to supply Jet Pilot knives. They were unique as they didn't have a date stamp on the pommel. This contract was apparently very short lived and very few Utica Jet Pilots survive today. Out of the short bladed Jet Pilots issue knives they are the rarest. Late in the Vietnam War yet another manufacturer was awarded a contract on Jet Pilot knives, Ontario. Ontario like Camillus is still making these knives today. Unchanged since 1967 and still a big seller quite an accomplishment."

Mac
 
the point is. your a pilot you crash, your planes on fire! sh**! saw and hack out of the plane, grab any gear within easy reach, and watch as the plane blows up.
your now saying to yourself, "boy i wish i had a becker right now"? no your not, your thankful to be alive and to even have a knife. besides you might have a radio or a gps sytem in your plane, or in you gear. also i think anyones CO would be smart enough to send some more planes after you with a infared camera. and theyd search for you along and near your flight path, or where you last transmited a signal. theyd find you.
even if they didnt, indiginous people have gotten along fine with no steel knives, or scap metal(from plane). they live rather easily in some areas.
end of story, a.f.s.k. is for the u.s.a.f., not for hunters campers, or survivalists. it for crash survival, not bush survival. thats a common misconception about the knife.
 
To expand on elvenbladesmith07's comments, we should probably also take into account that most air crew personnel probably aren't "into" knives and survival like we on this forum are, and thus wouldn't ponder the merits or drawbacks of a knife as closely as us.
 
We are missing an obvious point here. If you don't eject you will probably not need to worry about getting out anyway. If you do survive the crash you probably won't be in shape to cut anything.

Even if you could a blade that can cut an oil drum under ideal circumstances is hell and gone from an aircrafts mangled wreckage in comparrison.

Skam
 
Skam,

I posted the info about the original specs to reflect on the rational behind the design specs of the knife. The saw teeth and overall design of the knife are for pilot egress first and wilderness survival second. It is what it is becuase that's how they were thinking. Intrestingly enough the new knife selected for this role looks surprisingly similar to the AFSK.

Not all aircrashes are TWA flight 800. Helicopter crashes are often autorotations into bad landing places and don't result in confetti. Light planes go down all the time here in Brazil and often hold together. I even saw one in which a camera crew went back to the scene 7 YEARS later and the plane hadn't hit the ground yet. It was still in the trees.

Controlled flight into ground is one thing. A forced landing is another and often results in a survivable crash. Ejection is a good idea, helicopter pilots and civilian light aircraft don't have that luxury. A catostrophic aircrash is a moot point, your dead. It's that middle ground, crushed cockpit, scenario that the knife was intended to function in.

The oil can test was to show that the knife is capable of cutting metal similar to (actually heavier than) what would be found covering an airframe.
Ideal conditions being a functioning right arm. I could try it again lefty if you'd like but whats the point?

The AFSK isn't perfect by a long shot but if you work over someone's helicopter with one for 15 minutes you'd do some serious damage to it. Keep in mind that a Huey carried three or four in the crew. If one of them went down ugly, three guys working with their knives might just get a trapped crewman out. It beats dialing 911. Mac
 
Jesus people -- doesn't anybody remember a plain old hard landing where the airframe was twisted enough that you could not get the door open without a tool of some sort?
 
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