AISI F2 alloy questions

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Wolf_HR

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Jun 22, 2013
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I was reading a book on tool steels when this image set me aback...

TU8yltl.jpg


I read discussions on super steels and like, but I don't recall much being said of AISI F2 steel, yet it strikes me as having properties that would be idealy suited for non stainless fixed blade- according to this chart it seems to be on par with D2 for wear resistance and with L6 for toughness. It is reported to be hardenable to 67-69 HRC range (manufacturer data on alloy that seems to be still produced in Germany recommends 67).

I would be grateful for any info, real world expiriences, opinions on F2 and such like. TIA :-)
 
Trust me, you're not the only one drooling over F2 steel. Being a steel junkie, I like to look at all of the compositions of tool steels and what have you. F2 caught my eye instantly as well. It is VERY much like Blue # 1, or even Super Blue....because it has both Vanadium (just a touch) and Tungsten (quite a bit actually). The carbon content is up there with 1.3% carbon. Unfortunately for us.....F2 is not available anywhere as far as I know, and I don't think it is being made any longer either.

F2 would be a KILLER knife steel, one that I would love to spend time learning.
 
SamuraiStuart, I used ZKnives data and checked up listed manufacturers- and it turns out that it is still available from a German mill Ossenberg ( http://www.edelstahlwerk-ossenberg.de/homepage/?L=1 ). They have it listed in product specifications under 1.2453, which is W-Nr of F2 steel, and their designation in the sheet (SS511) matches that listed on ZKnives. So, I saw a glimmer of light (that it might not be entirely unavailable) and started this thread...
 
Whoaaaaaa dude. Now I am all excited. Had to type this before even checking the link! Off to it now.....
 
My guess is that you would have to buy a few metric tons of steel in order to acquire it from them. If I wasn't already in the works obtaining something relatively special, I'd call them. If you are really interested, give them a call. I'm sure there will be an English speaking rep available for you.

I wish I had more info on F2. I doubt that the company you linked to even has it in stock, rolled out, ready to go. Even if they said "yes", they'd have to make it for you, and they'd have a minimum buy of a ton or half ton or whatever.

To give you an idea....1084 is not available any longer. Except when Aldo has it custom smelted from Germany. Same with W2. It isn't made (readily available) any longer, but you can have it made with the $$$$$, and lots of it.
 
I could contact them in German if required.
I'm sure there'll be some interest here so that cost could be split.
Where would one get something like this hardened since nobody will have any experience with it?
 
F2 is a very good knife steel. I obtained a small amount of it from Carpenter in the mid
70's. At that time, Carpenter stated that no steel was as wear resisting as KW (their name for F2)...

In my experience with it (rather minimal), I'd say the diagram above is a bit off...F2 being
a bit more wear resistant, and not quite as tough (shock resistant) as shown.

When I inquired about purchacing in the 70's, there was a min. order of 3,000 lbs. In the mid
90's (last time I asked) the min order was 30'000 lbs.

It'd indeed be great to see it available here.
 
Russ Andrews said:
F2 is a very good knife steel. I obtained a small amount of it from Carpenter in the mid
70's. At that time, Carpenter stated that no steel was as wear resisting as KW (their name for F2)...

In my experience with it (rather minimal), I'd say the diagram above is a bit off...F2 being
a bit more wear resistant, and not quite as tough (shock resistant) as shown.

When I inquired about purchacing in the 70's, there was a min. order of 3,000 lbs. In the mid
90's (last time I asked) the min order was 30'000 lbs.

It'd indeed be great to see it available here.
Click to expand...
30000 pounds. :eek:
Can't pick that up from the nearest harbor using my Honda odyssey. Who has a fleet of trucks and a huge storage unit? :p
The only possibility I see that maybe they'll make a few pounds extra when they make a run for a bigger customer anyways and then send it over here.
They wouldn't do that for the money but maybe they are nice guys.
Let's see who works there and maybe they are on LinkedIn and who knows maybe they studied engineering in the same school like one of us.
There gotta be a way.
 
Also....F2 and L6 might test out about equal (per above chart), if the specimens are
round stock, because F2 is a shallow hardening steel, like W2/W1, while L6 will
harden through. On a thin edge, the results would not be nearly equal.
 
I just checked and on their website they say "Special analysis are generally possible from a minimum order quantity of 1,400 kg. Melting below that weight is an excerpt from our delivery program - but possible." They list available ingot sizes, so the possibility is that minimum would be 700kg, but it's still worth inquiring (as suggested to piggyback on a another batch/order) about even smaller 'collective order'.

Good point about specimens, Russ, I was wondering about it myself when I noticed that F2 is shallow hardening. (BTW, how would that fact reflect on stock removal vs. forging?)

Jens, ASM tool steel handbook I took this graph from has some HT info which I may post if it's of any interest, and some can be found on the Ossenberg website ( http://www.edelstahlwerk-ossenberg.de/fileadmin/PDF/Kaltarbeit/1.2453.pdf )...
 
Wolf. With F2, you have to be very careful not to overheat while forging, due to the tungsten's
tendency to promote crumbling at high heat. Other than that, the differences between forging
and stock removal methods, are the short lived abrasives, and the additional thermal treatments
needed after forging.
 
I don't think it is really possible for any alloy to be heat treated to >60rc and still being as tough as L6 while having wear resistance of D2...
 
Yep, Russ said it wasn't as tough in his experience... But, *ass*uming similar drop in toughness when through-hardened as graph shows for L2 and L3, I'd say it would still be tougher than O1 and O2, and level with A2 with better wear resistance (which wouldn't be affected)... Just my (un)educated guess, I must add.
 
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