AK-47 vs. AR-15

JTR357

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Sep 10, 2007
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14,132
This is simply a rhetorical question.

Assuming your state would allow you to have either.Which would you pick if they were both the same price?

I'd pick the AK,because of it's durability,less parts,simplicity of design,surplus of parts & ammo,reliability & the ability to fire extremely dirty.

However the AR is more accurate & lighter,with more options of add-ons.

Never mind about the fully automatic verions.Just assume they are both semi-automatics.


I once read a military man pulled an old rusted AK out of the mud in Vietnam after sitting in there after a year.He cocked it with his foot & fired it.How many could say they could do that with an AR-15 or an M16?
 
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since most states won't allow either.

:confused: :confused:

Different horses for different courses.

If I had to drag it through the wilderness and had little in the way of maintenance supplies, the AK wins for sure.

AK47s.jpg
 
You're a lucky man Guyon...I gotta get the hell outa Jerzee:grumpy:

Sweet setup:thumbup:
 
I would have to choose the AR15 or variant. The AK is a very good weapon but with common sense and maintenance the AR is every bit as reliable. The story about pulling the AK out of mud after a year sounds a bit farfetched but they do work well dirty. The AR has several points in it's favor...

Accuracy...Not a contest, the AR is far more accurate than an AK.
Weight...Both the rifle and the ammo are lighter thus reducing fatigue as well as allowing more ammo to be carried.
Parts...Parts are very accessible for the AR in my country.
Cleaning...basic cleaning is marginally easier.
Sights...the stock iron sights on the AR are superior to the AK.
Ammo...much better selection of ammo in various weights and bullet designs.
Multi-role...the AR can fulfill many roles well. Combat rifle, target rifle, long range varmint, with a simple upper change it can handle a variety of different calibers from .22 long rifle up through 50 caliber.

There are also some PC* issues. The AK is seen by manner as the weapon of terrorism while the AR is viewed as the defender of freedom. I realize this is complete BS, a weapon cannot be "evil", but if I was defending my home and the police pulled up I would rather be seen with the AR in my hands. Many people equate AK to bad guy.

All told I believe the AR makes a better choice. I currently own 3 1/2 ( I am building a 4th and have the completed upper, deciding on a lower now) and they range from an H-Bar to a 12 inch barrel class III to a suppressed .300 Whisper. the versatility of the AR is unsurpassed.

* The use of PC (political correctness) is something I dislike but it is a fact many people do have a PC mindset. I don't personally but many people have been told that some inanimate are inherently evil and actually believe it. The best definition of PC I have ever heard is as follows...

"Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical, minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which hold forth the proposition that it entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
 
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how did he cock an AK with his foot?

that sounds like a bad idea.
 
AK any day of the week.

While AR has a accuracy advantage it's not enough to matter in any real world application.

Esp when you factor in durability/reliability.

1"+/- group vs 2"+/- group matters only on paper vs any real live targets.

Speed of reloads/safety also doesn't matter in real applications you hopefully be behind cover. Thou important to 3 gunners and competition shooters.

With the addition of a Ultimak and Aim point/eotech sighting advantage of AR is negated.

Parts for AR and AK are equally available.

Cleaning a AK is easier than AR and required far less in Field, AR requires Lubrication even Piston versions. (I should know I'm a Certified AR Armorer)

Nothing Multi roles good, I am comparing 5.56 vs 7.62.

7.62 has a huge advantage vs 5.56 when it comes to barriers and hard targets, while 5.56 is flatter shooting hence it has a distance advantage.
 
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This is simply a rhetorical question,since most states won't allow either.

I see this a lot. If something is banned where the person lives, they assume it's banned everywhere else. Same thing with laws. (especially gun laws)

The fact of the matter is, semi-auto AR's and AK's are legal nearly in every state! There are a few that banned them, but 45+ states have not. Hell, even IL, one of the "Top 5" states for anti-gunners, allows them.

And in Kommiefornia, they are making AR's to get around their stupid ban.

Yes, you need to get out of Joisee.

.
 
I would have to choose the AR15 or variant. The AK is a very good weapon but with common sense and maintenance the AR is every bit as reliable. The story about pulling the AK out of mud after a year sounds a bit farfetched but they do work well dirty. The AR has several points in it's favor...

Accuracy...Not a contest, the AR is far more accurate than an AK.
Weight...Both the rifle and the ammo are lighter thus reducing fatigue as well as allowing more ammo to be carried.
Parts...Parts are very accessible for the AR in my country.
Cleaning...basic cleaning is marginally easier.
Sights...the stock iron sights on the AR are superior to the AK.
Ammo...much better selection of ammo in various weights and bullet designs.
Multi-role...the AR can fulfill many roles well. Combat rifle, target rifle, long range varmint, with a simple upper change it can handle a variety of different calibers from .22 long rifle up through 50 caliber.

There are also some PC* issues. The AK is seen by manner as the weapon of terrorism while the AR is viewed as the defender of freedom. I realize this is complete BS, a weapon cannot be "evil", but if I was defending my home and the police pulled up I would rather be seen with the AR in my hands. Many people equate AK to bad guy.

All told I believe the AR makes a better choice. I currently own 3 1/2 ( I am building a 4th and have the completed upper, deciding on a lower now) and they range from an H-Bar to a 12 inch barrel class III to a suppressed .300 Whisper. the versatility of the AR is unsurpassed.

* The use of PC (political correctness) is something I dislike but it is a fact many people do have a PC mindset. I don't personally but many people have been told that some inanimate are inherently evil and actually believe it. The best definition of PC I have ever heard is as follows...

"Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical, minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which hold forth the proposition that it entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

Absintheur,Very good points.I got that quote from a book titled "AK-47".I can't find the book right now,I believe the CO involved pulled the AK out of the mud after a year,cocked it with his foot(since it was so stiff) & then fired it.Then quoted "This is what an infantrymans rifle should be"
This is purely by memory,but I'm sure I got most of it right.
Do you really think an AR is easier to disassemble & clean than an AK to an untrained soldier/civilian?
I know in S.Africa they have had as young as 7-10 yr olds operate & maintain AK's no problem.Do think it would be the same with an M16 or an AR?

I'm not trying to argue with you.I'm sure you know more about this subject then me.I just disagree with some of your statements.Please enlighten me.

Thanks for your input,
John


[edited to add]You can alter an AR to fire .50 caliber?!WOW!!
 
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I see this a lot. If something is banned where the person lives, they assume it's banned everywhere else. Same thing with laws. (especially gun laws)

The fact of the matter is, semi-auto AR's and AK's are legal nearly in every state! There are a few that banned them, but 45+ states have not. Hell, even IL, one of the "Top 5" states for anti-gunners, allows them.

And in Kommiefornia, they are making AR's to get around their stupid ban.

Yes, you need to get out of Joisee.

.

+500:thumbup: you got me there:o
 
I see this a lot. If something is banned where the person lives, they assume it's banned everywhere else. Same thing with laws. (especially gun laws)

The fact of the matter is, semi-auto AR's and AK's are legal nearly in every state! There are a few that banned them, but 45+ states have not. Hell, even IL, one of the "Top 5" states for anti-gunners, allows them.

And in Kommiefornia, they are making AR's to get around their stupid ban.

Yes, you need to get out of Joisee.

.

Funny--I was just going to post the same thing! I havn't researched it, but I would have guessed that they're legal more places than not!

I have one each--an AR in .223, and an AK in 7.62. Both fun to shoot!:thumbup:
 
A quick Google search will turn up thousands of pages written on this debate. Going to pretty much any online forum that even remotely might contain firearms material will also produce numerous hits on this topic.

Someone posted this here on BFC not too long ago... I found it amusing:
http://www.mouseguns.com/compare.htm

Choosing one of the two platforms should ultimately come down to the context of use, as well as personal preference. Each system no doubt has its strengths, but rabid fans of each still wage an online Holy War against each other.

Most of the "I read about..." stories I take with a heaping bit of salt. Take personal anecdote, mix it with decades of competing military propaganda, and finally add in personal agenda and you can concoct some crazy stories. Just to illustrate my point in regards to the specific story above: how would anyone have any idea how long a rifle had been in mud if they just happened upon it? Or was it like a time capsule? Maybe the rifle had a note: "This rifle was buried here in the mud on June 12, 1966"

"My rifle was submerged to the ocean floor for a decade and still was able to shoot a whale!"
"Oh yea? Well my rifle shot the wings off a fly from 800m away!"
"Oh yea? Well my rifle uses sand for lubrication!"
"Oh yea? Well my I can flip the safety, empty a mag, and reload my rifle before you can even switch that noisy safety off!"

At some point, the whole debate degenerates into a "My dad could beat up your dad" argument.
 
I'm pretty simple minded so the AK fits right in for me. Less complicated and less to forget.

So price being equal, does that mean there is a place where AR-15's will only be a few hundred dollars???? :eek:

BTW, what's better....9mm or .45acp? :D
 
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AK's and AR15s arent the same price in real life, a decent AK can be had for $300 or $400 while a AR is gonna run closer to $1K.

i have both and like 'em both a lot, the AK is more accurate than ususally given credit for and totally reliable, and i like the 7.62X39 and 5.45X39 better than the 5.56, while the AR15 is plenty accurate, and pretty reliable if kept clean, it would be a tough choice for me if i could only have one, if that was the case i imagine i would go with my AK74, but i love both rifles no doubt.

i saw a thing on natgeo, a south african policeman found a cache of AKM's and RPG's in a cave, had belonged to SWAPO and had been in the cave for ~ 10 yrs or so, all rusted up, he took one out and poured penzoil motor oil on the outside of it, put the butt on the ground and kicked the bolt handle to break it loose, ran a rod thru the bbl and proceeded to empty a mag with no problems, try that with an AR15 lol.

as far as .45 vs 9MM, with modern high performance ammo there isnt a lot of difference imho.
 
Absintheur,Very good points.I got that quote from a book titled "AK-47".I can't find the book right now,I believe the CO involved pulled the AK out of the mud after a year,cocked it with his foot(since it was so stiff) & then fired it.Then quoted "This is what an infantrymans rifle should be"
This is purely by memory,but I'm sure I got most of it right.
Do you really think an AR is easier to disassemble & clean than an AK to an untrained soldier/civilian?
I know in S.Africa they have had as young as 7-10 yr olds operate & maintain AK's no problem.Do think it would be the same with an M16 or an AR?

I'm not trying to argue with you.I'm sure you know more about this subject then me.I just disagree with some of your statements.Please enlighten me.

Thanks for your input,
John


[edited to add]You can alter an AR to fire .50 caliber?!WOW!!

A rifle that had been in mud for a year would be full of mud including the barrel and action. Even if the action managed to trip the hammer and it overcame the mud to strike the firing pen with sufficient force to fire the round in the chamber the barrel would likely burst from being plugged. I doubt this incident actually happened.

The AK was designed for just what you stated, uneducated people with little technological understanding. It was designed for an army of unmotivated conscripts and made as simple as possible for that reason. With a minimum of training the AR is just as easy to care for. For example the AR can be field stripped without having to release anything spring loaded and doesn't require the disassembly of a gas system. The AK is a perfect example of a throwaway weapon whereas the AR was design to be used by a nation of riflemen who volunteer to serve and are far more motivated.

The AR can fire the 50 Beowulf as well as the more powerful .458 SOCUM.

To address some of the comments made by Darkforster...

While AR has a accuracy advantage it's not enough to matter in any real world application.

I disagree, one of the requirements for the NRA LEO rifle Instructor's course is the ability to hit a 4X3 inch target 5 times with 5 rounds at 200 yards, iron sights only, sling allowed but no other support (no bipods). An AK is not capable of doing this yet it is something a police officer may need to do, just think if a "properly" trained officer with an AR had been present at the North Hollywood bank robbery.

Esp when you factor in durability/reliability.

Proper maintenance of an AR is not difficult, even in the field for a train person. Trained means as little as a 2 hour block of instruction and a willingness to read a manual. As for durability my H=Bar has had probably 50,000+ rounds through it and has broken yet.

With the addition of a Ultimak and Aim point/eotech sighting advantage of AR is negated

Only problem with electronic sights is they fail at the worse possible times. The AR factory sights are still much better. Of course if you do want to mount optics on a rifle the AR has far more options in types and locations of mounts.

Parts for AR and AK are equally available.

One nice thing about the AR is being able to change just about any part without worrying about violating the rules pertaining to the number of US parts required in the AK. It is very easy to create an illegal rifle if you do not know the origins of the parts you use or what parts in your rifle are US made to comply with the silly ATF laws.

Cleaning a AK is easier than AR and required far less in Field, AR requires Lubrication even Piston versions. (I should know I'm a Certified AR Armorer)

As I stated above it is simpler for an uneducated person but with a minimum of 2 hours instruction the AR is really just as easy. As far as frequency I have fired over 1000 rounds between cleanings, just added a little lube occasionally. I use Dri-Slide so the lube doesn't attract dirt. There are very few real life situations that wouldn't allow a chance to clean your weapon as it was needed. Currently the rifles in service in the sandpit are functioning fine despite the conditions there. My AR training was in the Military so I cannot claim to be a "school trained" armorer but I am a NRA LEO instructor in rifle, pistol, and shotgun...a HK trained armorer in rifle, pistol shotgun, and sub-machinegun...an NRA Instructor in handgun, rifle, range officer, home firearm safety, personal protection, etc. (my creds are available via e-mail to any who want them)

Nothing Multi roles good, I am comparing 5.56 vs 7.62.

I disagree. With a simple upper change the AR can serve as a main battle rifle
hbarsmall.jpg

A short entry gun
arshortysmall.jpg

Or a suppressed 30 caliber sniper rifle.
whispersmall.jpg


It can also be used in calibers up to 50 and the M-203 concept gave the rifle the capability to become a grenadier as well.

7.62 has a huge advantage vs 5.56 when it comes to barriers and hard targets, while 5.56 is flatter shooting hence it has a distance advantage.

The 7.62X39 doesn't have that much advantage, if any, over the 5.56 using current mil-spec ammo It does not have the velocity needed to give it an edge. The 7.62X51 does but that is not what is being discussed. Of course the AR platform is available in 7.62X51 as well.
 
The simplest answer is, "Yes, I'll take both."

Given that, if I had to choose, I'd pick the AR. I live in civilization, but if I were in some 3rd world hell hole, I might go with the AK for a variety of reasons.

However, where I live, the AR would be the better choice. I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but the ergonomics of the AR are light years ahead of the AK (and just about any other rifle). If you're going to actually use it, those things matter. I need to hit where I aim regardless of the application, which is just easier and more consistent with an AR.

ARs are plenty reliable if 1) your gun is properly built using decent quality components, and 2) use decent ammo, and 3) you keep it lubed properly. You don't even need to keep it clean. My guns go for thousands of rounds and sit for weeks or months at a time (dirty), yet they always work. Why? Because I keep them lubed. Your bolt carrier should be "wet" in appearance if your gun is lubed adequately. If you lube it, it will run.

Most peope who have problems with their ARs either 1) have a poorly built gun or substandard components, 2) use crap ammo, or 3) do not lube properly, either because of ignorance or refusal. In my experience watching other people's guns fail, #3 is the leader of the pack of mistakes.
 
A rifle that had been in mud for a year would be full of mud including the barrel and action. Even if the action managed to trip the hammer and it overcame the mud to strike the firing pen with sufficient force to fire the round in the chamber the barrel would likely burst from being plugged. I doubt this incident actually happened.

The AK was designed for just what you stated, uneducated people with little technological understanding. It was designed for an army of unmotivated conscripts and made as simple as possible for that reason. With a minimum of training the AR is just as easy to care for. For example the AR can be field stripped without having to release anything spring loaded and doesn't require the disassembly of a gas system. The AK is a perfect example of a throwaway weapon whereas the AR was design to be used by a nation of riflemen who volunteer to serve and are far more motivated.

The AR can fire the 50 Beowulf as well as the more powerful .458 SOCUM.

To address some of the comments made by Darkforster...

While AR has a accuracy advantage it's not enough to matter in any real world application.

I disagree, one of the requirements for the NRA LEO rifle Instructor's course is the ability to hit a 4X3 inch target 5 times with 5 rounds at 200 yards, iron sights only, sling allowed but no other support (no bipods). An AK is not capable of doing this yet it is something a police officer may need to do, just think if a "properly" trained officer with an AR had been present at the North Hollywood bank robbery.

Esp when you factor in durability/reliability.

Proper maintenance of an AR is not difficult, even in the field for a train person. Trained means as little as a 2 hour block of instruction and a willingness to read a manual. As for durability my H=Bar has had probably 50,000+ rounds through it and has broken yet.

With the addition of a Ultimak and Aim point/eotech sighting advantage of AR is negated

Only problem with electronic sights is they fail at the worse possible times. The AR factory sights are still much better. Of course if you do want to mount optics on a rifle the AR has far more options in types and locations of mounts.

Parts for AR and AK are equally available.

One nice thing about the AR is being able to change just about any part without worrying about violating the rules pertaining to the number of US parts required in the AK. It is very easy to create an illegal rifle if you do not know the origins of the parts you use or what parts in your rifle are US made to comply with the silly ATF laws.

Cleaning a AK is easier than AR and required far less in Field, AR requires Lubrication even Piston versions. (I should know I'm a Certified AR Armorer)

As I stated above it is simpler for an uneducated person but with a minimum of 2 hours instruction the AR is really just as easy. As far as frequency I have fired over 1000 rounds between cleanings, just added a little lube occasionally. I use Dri-Slide so the lube doesn't attract dirt. There are very few real life situations that wouldn't allow a chance to clean your weapon as it was needed. Currently the rifles in service in the sandpit are functioning fine despite the conditions there. My AR training was in the Military so I cannot claim to be a "school trained" armorer but I am a NRA LEO instructor in rifle, pistol, and shotgun...a HK trained armorer in rifle, pistol shotgun, and sub-machinegun...an NRA Instructor in handgun, rifle, range officer, home firearm safety, personal protection, etc. (my creds are available via e-mail to any who want them)

Nothing Multi roles good, I am comparing 5.56 vs 7.62.

I disagree. With a simple upper change the AR can serve as a main battle rifle
hbarsmall.jpg

A short entry gun
arshortysmall.jpg

Or a suppressed 30 caliber sniper rifle.
whispersmall.jpg


It can also be used in calibers up to 50 and the M-203 concept gave the rifle the capability to become a grenadier as well.

7.62 has a huge advantage vs 5.56 when it comes to barriers and hard targets, while 5.56 is flatter shooting hence it has a distance advantage.

The 7.62X39 doesn't have that much advantage, if any, over the 5.56 using current mil-spec ammo It does not have the velocity needed to give it an edge. The 7.62X51 does but that is not what is being discussed. Of course the AR platform is available in 7.62X51 as well.

Absintheur,Thank you for the thorough explanation in laymans terms.You answered all my questions.I think you just made an AR fan out of me;):thumbup:
Only thing is @ $400 for an AK47 & $1000+ for an AR15,I'd still probably go for the AK47 or the AK74.
Thanks buddy:),
John

BTW,Nice pics:thumbup:
 
Absintheur,Thank you for the thorough explanation in laymans terms.You answered all my questions.I think you just made an AR fan out of me;):thumbup:
Only thing is @ $400 for an AK47 & $1000+ for an AR15,I'd still probably go for the AK47 or the AK74.
Thanks buddy:),
John

BTW,Nice pics:thumbup:

There is a considerable price difference, but I either buy or build ARs for myself the same reason I bought a Effingham Black Jack instead of a Frost Cutlery knife...you get what you pay for. I am not knocking the AK, for what you payfor, you get a fine firearm but it is not the equal in quality of a good AR. I have owned them,as well as SKSs but I know ARs and what they will do in the hands of an expert. There is a reason you don't see AKs shooting at Perry...lol. There are also reasons the Russians have abandoned the 7.62X39 as well.
 
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