Al Mar SERE 2000 : mainly batoning/prying

Brian6244 said:
So does anyone know whether the current version of the Sere is the skeletonized liner or the solid liner?
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Just wondering if anyone has come up with an answer to Brian's question yet?
I still like the SERE and I guess ideally what I would like to hear is that the newer models have solid locking bars and pass the same tests that the skeletonized one failed....??:D
Cliff, have you tried the same battoning test with any other folders, such as the Manix or Paramilitary?
All the best,
Abe
 
I'll be doing it with more in the future, developing a rough standard for expected behavior. If people show enough interest hopefully Spyderco can start adding impact work along with the loading they currently do to thier folders.

-Cliff
 
I have one of the new ones, and yes it's still got the cut out across the linerlock where it flexes. It's solid everywhere else. Mine also has the white plastic washers - probably Nylatron or what ever. Before I bought this one, I noticed that the other one I looked at had the VG-10 blade from Seki City as well as the phosphor bronze washers and this one is from Moki. Now the first one I looked was over a year ago when I was in Vegas. I highly doubt that I would push my SERE 2K that hard but it's nice to know what it's limits are. I haven't used mine all that much per se, so I can't say one way or the other as to any wear and tear. Up to this point it's been more than adequate for what I've used it for. The rougher stuff is usually covered off by my Buck/Strider 887 SBT:) Good review Cliff.

- gord
 
I have to say that despite the niggle re the SERE's shortcomings in the batoning test, the one I had a play with for a while was very seductive: just felt so 'right' in the hand and was very comfortable during some prolonged woodworking.
I may just get one anyway as there is nothing as yet to show by how much a solid locking bar might better perform and just leave battoning to the fixed blades:)
Thanks for the great reviews, Cliff and for taking time to reply.
Cheers,
Abe
 
I have a question, I have made good use of the search function and Google, but cant seem to find the definition of battoning. From what I have gathered so far, it seems that it is driving the knife through a piece of wood by hammerring it with another piece of wood. Is this the right definition?
 
JackFuller said:
I have a question, I have made good use of the search function and Google, but cant seem to find the definition of battoning. From what I have gathered so far, it seems that it is driving the knife through a piece of wood by hammerring it with another piece of wood. Is this the right definition?
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That's correct:thumbup:
 
Abe said:
...felt so 'right' in the hand and was very comfortable during some prolonged woodworking.
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Yes, nice handle shape, thin edge, cut very well. Heavy batoning is pretty demanding in general, few will openly encourage such use on their folders, Doug Ritter is one of the few that does so.

-Cliff
 
I was thinking about springing for a SERE 2000, but after reading this evaluation, can you recommend something comparable but better?
 
lolmitten.jpg


ooold thread...

I vote ontario canning knife (non folding) :D
http://knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=ONW5130
 
Dear Cliff Stamp, I read your evaluations, and while I consider batoning and prying abuse of a perfectily sutiable knife. Ive used the sere 2000 for alomost 10 years now and and it has never failed me. While I agree that survival is an unplanned event, a person should plan for the worst. When Im going out in the woods I always bring the Marble Trailmaker with me just in case somthing goes wrong. Asking or demading a folder to do all the work of survival is folly. No blade can do it all. It takes several blades to accomplish this task. The Sere 2000 to me is a blade that is "jack of all trades",but i would not trust my life to it. You cant build home, farm fish, and do all the nessary things with a liittle folder.

buddylee
 
After reading the review and the suggestions given, I'm thinking about going the route of the Spyderco Manix for a new EDC SD blade. I'm looking to replace my Endura which I carry as an SD folder. I want something that's strong enough to be pressed into a survival role if necessary, but whenever I'm out in the sticks I carry my Puma White Hunter (and Wave).

The Manix looks good. I have never liked or really trusted liner locks, though it appears they've come a long way. Still, ever since I first saw them I thought they were nothing but a (shoddy) solution in search of a problem. I own liner locking knives and I've never had any trouble with them, but I just prefer the back lock. I thought the SERE 2000 would be ideal for what I wanted, but since it's a liner locker I had a raised eyebrow from the beginning. I was also thinking about the SOG Tomcat, but since it lacked a pocket clip I lost interest pretty quick. This is to be the knife that never leaves my side, except when it sits on the bathroom counter while I'm in the shower. I don't go anywhere without it and I sleep with it clipped to my waistband.

I like the Endura, but I don't particularly like the redesigned tips on the new ones. I think they ought to make both available. Also, it's pretty light-weight and while I think it's okay for an SD blade I wouldn't want to have to rely on it as my only blade in a bad situation.

It looks like that Manix is a winner, but if anyone has anything to say about it, positive or negative, I sure appreciate your feedback as it's pretty pricey as far as my salary is concerned.

Thanks guys.
 
The Manix is extremely solid and will hold up to heavy knife use for a long, long time so long as you aren't prying with it. It has great finish, great materials, is made here in the States, and is as solid and well designed as they come. The only drawback is that it is heavier than most knives of a similar size due to the thick, solid steel lock bar that makes the lock so strong, and will take up a lot of pocket space.

If you want one, don't wait, they were just discontinued and are soon to become a very coveted and expensive model.
 
digital9ja said:
...This is to be the knife that never leaves my side, except when it sits on the bathroom counter while I'm in the shower. I don't go anywhere without it and I sleep with it clipped to my waistband.
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That's exactly what my Manix does. I have a number of other knives, but it's my Manix that's ALWAYS with me. When I flew over the holiday, I felt naked without it. (Plus I needed to use it several times). This is a very solid knife, and I love it. I use this knife for everything from cutting zip ties and cord to opening packages to cutting fruits, vegetables, and bagels in the kitchen.

I touch up the blade every few days (probably because my technique isn't the greatest), so it'll shave hair whenever I need it to. Which isn't often, but you never know...

I usually carry my Manix in my pocket, but when I wear slacks it slips inside my waistband easily and rides there all day with no problems. I was concerned that I'd see some wear from the G10, but have had no problems at all in the year or so I've had the knife now.

Get a Manix! It's money VERY well spent.
 
I don't understand why anyone would subject a folder to such abuse./

If you want to have a FB within easy reach, simply carry a daypack with you on a daily basis. You can fit any number of fixed blades in one. I carry a 7,5 inch Jones Bros Entry Tool in my Condor II every day and nobody is the wiser.

In my vehicle is a BOB, containing a CS Kukri and a CRK Project I. Surely, wherever you are, your vehicle will be nearby.

Besides, if you are going into the woods, where you are likely to be doing tasks like batoning, then surely you would have the sense to carry a good FB on you? Or a hatchet or kukri? I know I would...

:confused:
 
Well, I think this would be more suitable for a new topic, but....

1) First and foremost, the name of the folder suggests that it can serve as last ditch tool. I am not sure but I would be surprised if "backpacks" were allowed in S.E.R.E. school.... So if a company markets a knife such, it should be reasonable to assume that it may be used in a manner consistent with the marketing. If someone would test as DELICA in the same manner, one could true speak of abuse, as the manufacturer clearly never intended it for such purposes.

2) There are indeed folders that DO withstand such "abuse"....ironically the DELICA III is among them...the OPINEL btw. as well!!!

Both considerations nonwithstanding, it is of course common sense, that, when at all possible, one would carry a tool more suitable for such tasks.
 
Well, as much as I enjoy hearing how Cliff destroyed knives, it is plainly obvious that using a folder, any folder for batoning is a last ditch effort and you are likely to permanently damage it. I cannot imagine that anyone would expect any folder to survive that. That is absolute abuse.

It would be akin to using a filet knife to baton through a log. why? If your life depends on it, then realize that it may be the last time you use the knife for anything.

Cliff did these things to test how far a knife would go, but I would not fault any folding knife for failing a test like that.
 
Cobalt, many of us have been batoning folders for a while now. I've done it with SAKs and Opinels (Which are thin like the filet knives you mention) numerous time with no damage to either knife. Knives like the Spyderco Manix or Military offer a lot of batoning ability for those knowledgable with the proper techniques.

I have an Opinel #10 that I've batoned through branches as thick as the blade can handle for years and it's actually sustained more damage through regular everyday use as a food prep knife than it has being batoned through wood.
 
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