Al Mar Shiva ? and Poll

[NGK-Webmaster]

Currently there is a limited edition Al Mar Shiva out, with Chinese Quince Burl Wood handles and a Laminated VG-10 blade, the blade has a top edge that is sharpened.

Later this year there will be a production version coming out with Micarta handles and will be a bit cheaper.

In a conversation with Gary Fadden of Al Mar earlier this week the subject came up about the blade being double edged or having the top edge sharpened and if the knife would be better with just a swedge on the top instead of being sharpened and which way the buying public would prefer it. Some states would call a knife like this illegal because of the double edge, which seems to me would keep some people from buying it. I know hunters do not like a double edged blade for a skinning etc.

So here is a chance for everyone to have some input on a knife that is going to be made.

Which way would you rather have your knife even if it is not a Shiva which way do you prefer?

I will pass this thread along to Gary in a few days.

And here is a pic of the knife I am talking about:

 

[GarageBoy]

I like swedge

 

[donovan]

I've liked that knife since it first came out. It looks like classic Al Mar. But, double edges are illegal in Texas, so there you have it.

Jack

 

[TorzJohnson]

I also vote swedge although I can't really vote.

Kudos to them for coming out with a micarta version. Chinese Quince Burl looks too gaudy or garish to me for some reason.

 

[Bob W]

Swedge.

-Bob

 

[Keith Montgomery]

I prefer the double edge on fighters.

 

[Marcelo Cantu]

My vote don't count but....Swedge, Green linen Micarta would be sweet!

 

[NGK-Webmaster]

I don't I like it on this knife, looks nice with the tapered tang, they did a nice job of it.

 

[severtecher]

NGK, you send me any Shivas you can't stand to look at. My first really nice knife was an Al Mar I got on a trip to "Frisco" so those Mars have a special place on my display rack. I really like that Shiva!

 

[booshank]

Although it was a different knife, the original versions of the Al Mar Shiva made by B. Harsey back in 91'-'93(?) had a sharpened top swedge. The blade was a bit longer too (7").
In a lot of ways its nice to see the newer version of the Shiva retain some of the 1st versions features (handle "rivet hole" pattern too).

Then again the market for the Shiva back then was probably different than it is now. So an unsharpened swedge would probably sell better.
Instead of the sharpened swedge a longer blade would be nice though.

 

[Ivan Campos]

I remember having seen that first version on Tactical Knives and getting a lot of inspiration from it, back when I was starting into the knife world. And the new one does not look bad at all.

 

[Mudflap]

Swedge. The swedge could be sharpened later for those who really want a double-edged blade. Love this design.

Wonder if they ever thought about this design with the Prylon handle and sheath for an even more affordable knife?

 

[BigDeeeeeeee]

Swedge

 

[NI200]

Some states would call a knife like this illegal because of the double edge

you can add Canada to the list

 

[Keith Montgomery]

you can add Canada to the list

There is no law against double edge knives in Canada.

 

[NGK-Webmaster]

I don't I like it on this knife, looks nice with the tapered tang, they did a nice job of it.

Just to clear that post up, I do like the handles on this knife they are done very well and add alot of class to the knife and the with the tapered tang it's a niec set up.

 

[sartech]

...best to have a Swedge that is able to be sharpened. Then the end-user has the most flexibility with their knife...



Another interesting historical side note - the Al Mar/Bill Harsey Shiva while a stunning piece was actually the second version.

Originally, Al approached Kuzan Oda for a fighting/utility knife design. With both Al and Kuzan being opinionated and strong-willed sorts, the relationship fell apart with only a few of the original Kuzan Shivas having been produced.

Al then took Kuzan's design to Bill Harsey. The blade was lengthened by about 1/2" and one of the coolest Al Mar knives ever made began to be produced. There are very few that remain. (One detriment, to my taste anyway, is that they all had a brass double guard. Albeit bead-blasted and hence subdued, but still brass. And has been attributed to Jerry Fisk, "brass has no class.")

I never was able to confirm this story with Al before his demise but, given the following, it seems real.

In the early '90's, before Kuzan moved from Alaska to Japan to study traditional swordmaking, I commissioned a couple of the Original Pattern Shivas from him. I even found him a bar of 154cm from TM Dowell in Oregon - since he wouldn't use another steel for this project and didn't have any on hand...

Kuzan makes incredible pieces. At one point, I'm told that he swept out Bob Loveless' shop. This probably contributed to Kuzan's quality of fit/finish, high-polish, and some of his design ideas. It certainly contributed to his sheath making. There's a strong Loveless design influence throughout his work...

So, here's a follow-on thought. If the fit/finish, design and quality - learned at the feet of the master - are of equal or better quality and far fewer pieces were made and exist, how should one value these?

Just wondering... What you guys think?

 

[dsvirsky]

Another vote for swedge.

 

[Kohai999]

I have an Al Mar Shiva made by Bill Harsey, as it came from Al Mar. It was made in 1990. The bolsters are 416 ss, bead blasted as you said. This configuraton does not have a swedge, but is more of a spear point, and it is sharpened on the back edge. Green BB micarta scales with the afformentioned tubing for construction.

I own the new Shiva, and while I like it, it seems to me that they flat ground it, and I liked the hollows on the original configuration. That is one sexy knife. The current iteration is not bad, the thing that I HATE is that the GALCO(great, great leather company) sheath fits the knife horribly. My sheath fits like it was made for another knife, it literally flops around in the sheath, and rattles. Very distressing. I was going to call Gary about it this week.

I will agree with you in that is is one of, if not THE best looking knife designs to come out of Al Mar's brilliant mind. He will always be missed.

Your question of values is interesting, and has no straight answer. It really depends on the original maker, and the STATUS of the student.

S.R. Johnson, as a student of Loveless' rates very highly in regard and prices, but has NOT commanded higher pricing than the master. Rod Chappel studied under Gil Hibben and Harvey Draper, and his prices are much higher than theirs(although Harvey is deceased, and there is that rarity factor). There is no clear cut answer, other than to take it on a case by case business. Did you have someone specific in mind?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[KenHash]

Old thread but adding info for the record.

Soldier of Fortune Magazine 1982.

Production version of Oda Kuzan/Al Mar Shiva 1982- numbered to 1000.

Bill Harsey made Shiva circa 1990.

Al Mar Shiva by Moki with VG10 Sanmai.

Kuzan made custom iteration in museum Seki Japan.